Council of Elrond

Everyone was very helpful answering my questions in my previous thread and I would like to thank all of you once again for the help! I would most specifically like to thank Ringbearer for taking the time to respond to each and every one of my questions! So thanks again!

I have come across some additional questions that I would be very grateful to have answered. Thanks in advance and please forgive me if I ask a question which was already clarified in the rules somewhere.

1) Untapped characters must be assigned strikes from an attack before tapped or wounded
characters can be assigned strikes. Does this rule also apply to allies in the company? Must an
untapped ally face a strike (if he can legally do so), before allowing the hazard player to assign
strikes to tapped or wounded characters?

2) Please confirm: a hazard creature card which states: "Attacker chooses defending characters" can also choose to target an
ally in the company because allies act as characters for the purposes of combat, correct?

3) At the beginning of my turn I have four characters at Rivendell: Glorfindel, Elrohir, Cirdan
and Elladan. Elladan is under Cirdan's direct influence and I am currently using all of my 20
general influence. Cirdan also possesses an Elf Stone. Celeborn is in my hand and I would like to play him under Cirdan's
direct influence and bring Elladan back to my hand. Is this possible
and what are the rules which manage this decision? Can you exceed your general influence
maximum during your organization phase as long as it is corrected by the end of the
organization phase? Additionally, are there any restrictions on bringing characters back to your
hand? Could you bring a character back to your hand during your organization phase for any
reason? What happens to items or permanent events on a character when he is brought back to
your hand? What if I wanted to bring Elrohir back to my hand instead of Elladan, and simply
move Elladan out from under Cirdan's direct influence and into my General Influence? Are there any restrictions or
differences here?

4) This question deals with the same concepts as the question above. What if my opponent plays
a Rebel-Talk on one of my characters who is being controlled by direct influence and this causes me to exceed my General
Influence allowance of 20? Do I wait until my next organization phase to make changes? When is the target character removed
from direct influence, immediately or during my next organization phase? Once my General Influence of
20 is exceeded, do I need to respond by bringing a character back to my hand? What if I choose
to bring the character back to my hand who has the Rebel-Talk played on it, is the Rebel-Talk
then discarded?

5) Can you tap Akhorahil (permanent event) and use his -1 to body effect AFTER a body check
roll has been made on a wounded character? Essentially, if you can use this ability as an
interrupt to eliminate a character once a body check roll is made that ties a character's body it
could be quite useful. Alternatively, if you have to use his ability before the roll is made, it doesn't seem like it would be that
useful.

6) Was the text on the character Gloin corrected to state "+2 direct influence against Blue
Mountain Dwarves faction" instead of "against Blue Mountain Dwarves"? I seemed to recall
reading about this clarification somehwere but I don't see Gloin listed in the errata section of
the Universal Rules doc.

7) I understand that any item except for The One Ring can be stored at a haven, and that the
character storing the item must make a successful corruption check to store it. What if I have
a character who is carrying 3 items and he wants to store them all? Does he have to pass a
single corruption check to store all 3? Or does he have to make 3 separate corruption checks
with each corruption check being modified to not include corruption points from the item(s) he
has already stored? Also, is storing items only done during the organization phase?

8 ) I understand that allies are considered to be characters only for the purposes of combat and
skill use. Roac the Raven has the skill of a diplomat, thus can you play a Lordly Presence on
him when attempting to bring in a faction? What about other cards like A Friend or Three?
Generally speaking, allies can not attempt to bring factions into play unless specifically stated
that they can like with Roac, is this correct? Could I play A Friend or Three on Roac during a
faction influence attempt?

9) The errata on the hazard creature Buthrakaur the Green states: "Any hazard creatures played
using the ability of Buthrakaur the Green need not be keyed to anything and are in fact not
keyed to anything." So if I am understanding this correctly, it means that I could unload my
entire hand of non-unique orcs and trolls on the company in question and completely ignore
whether or not they can legally be keyed to the site or regions in question and none of which
count against the hazard limit. Is this right? Also, to be able to use this ability, what is
considered to be having "faced" Buthrakaur that turn? If Dark Quarrels is used for example to cancel the attack by Buthrakaur,
then he hasn't been "faced" and thus you couldn't use his
special ability to play additional hazard creatures, correct?

10) In the Universal Rules Document by B. Took when discussing the Sideboard, he states:
"The sideboard can contain any mix of resources, characters, and hazards, so long as
you do not duplicate non-unique cards."
Is this a mis-print and does he mean to say "so long as you do not duplicate unique cards."??
Surely you can duplicate non-unique cards in your sideboard, just as you can have duplicates
in your play deck, right? If I am correct here, I would like to suggest an amendement to the
URL in this regard.

11) Am I allowed to look through my discard pile at any time?

12) Am I correct that you do not have to enter the site (and face automatic attacks) in order to play
cards like The Windlord Found Me (or any other non-item, faction, ally cards which don't specify that you must enter the site
to play them)?

13) In regards to Dreams of Lore - again, I am not entering the site here, correct? I am only tapping
the site and thus don't have to face any automatic attacks right? Does this mean that it would be
impossible to play both Dreams of Lore AND an item at the same site during the same turn?

14) Is there any place to view the contents of the various Player's Guides online? It seems that most
of these are extremely expensive and I can't afford to purchase them, however I would very
much like to look over the contents.

15) There are no restrictions on sideboard balancing, correct? So I could have 30 hazards in my
sideboard and nothing else?

16) Elf-stone states: "+2 direct influence used against an Elf character or an Elf faction." Due to
the word "OR" which is used, am I correct in guessing that if the direct influence is being used
to control an Elf, that you can not also use the +2 bonus to influence an Elf faction? On the
other hand, if you used it to bring in an Elf faction first, you could then subsequently use it towards an Elf character by
placing the character under the direct influence of the character carrying the Elf-stone? The character Thrain II text states: "+3
direct influence against Dwarves
and Dwarf factions." Since his wording uses "AND" I am assuming that he can continually use
a +3 bonus towards dwarf characters and dwarf faction influence attempts at the same time,
correct? Finally, Glorfindel's text "+1 direct influence against Elves" can not be used as a bonus
to influence an elf faction can it?

17) The card The Moon is Dead states that "All Undead attacks receive +1 strike and +1 prowess.
All Undead automatic attacks are duplicated. Discard this card when an undead attack is
defeated." So my question is this: if I defeat the first automatic attack (and thus The Moon is
Dead is discarded), does the second (duplicate) automatic attack still exist and have to be faced?
If so, does this second automatic attack still get the +1 strike and prowess bonuses?

In the future please break up the questions into single posts, it'll make answering and discussing the answers easier. Not everyone wants to read through a big long post and answer every question or may not know the answer to everything. If you break up the post into single questions, people who know just the specific answer are more likely to answer your post.

the Jabberwock wrote:Everyone was very helpful answering my questions in my previous thread and I would like to thank all of you once again for the help! I would most specifically like to thank Ringbearer for taking the time to respond to each and every one of my questions! So thanks again!

I have come across some additional questions that I would be very grateful to have answered. Thanks in advance and please forgive me if I ask a question which was already clarified in the rules somewhere.

1) Untapped characters must be assigned strikes from an attack before tapped or wounded
characters can be assigned strikes. Does this rule also apply to allies in the company? Must an
untapped ally face a strike (if he can legally do so), before allowing the hazard player to assign
strikes to tapped or wounded characters?

Yes allies are considered characters for the purposes of combat. Also note there is a little used rule that people rarely use that a resource player choose to forgo assigning strikes and allow the hazard player to assign all strikes of an attack.

2) Please confirm: a hazard creature card which states: "Attacker chooses defending characters" can also choose to target an
ally in the company because allies act as characters for the purposes of combat, correct?

Confirmed, you are correct

3) At the beginning of my turn I have four characters at Rivendell: Glorfindel, Elrohir, Cirdan
and Elladan. Elladan is under Cirdan's direct influence and I am currently using all of my 20
general influence. Cirdan also possesses an Elf Stone. Celeborn is in my hand and I would like to play him under Cirdan's
direct influence and bring Elladan back to my hand. Is this possible
and what are the rules which manage this decision? Can you exceed your general influence
maximum during your organization phase as long as it is corrected by the end of the
organization phase? Additionally, are there any restrictions on bringing characters back to your
hand? Could you bring a character back to your hand during your organization phase for any
reason? What happens to items or permanent events on a character when he is brought back to
your hand? What if I wanted to bring Elrohir back to my hand instead of Elladan, and simply
move Elladan out from under Cirdan's direct influence and into my General Influence? Are there any restrictions or
differences here?

You can exceed your GI during the org phase, but at the end of the org phase you must get back down to the legal limit. The 1st character to be returned to the hand is any played during the current org phase. So in your scenario Celeborn would be returned you your hand. After that any character of your choosing may be returned. Any perm events on them are discarded as are any items, so tranfer those items off. Also note you can't move characters out of DI to GI just for this purpose, you must organize your characters in such a way that maximizes getting under the GI limit 1st, before any characters are returned to the hand.

4) This question deals with the same concepts as the question above. What if my opponent plays
a Rebel-Talk on one of my characters who is being controlled by direct influence and this causes me to exceed my General
Influence allowance of 20? Do I wait until my next organization phase to make changes? When is the target character removed
from direct influence, immediately or during my next organization phase? Once my General Influence of
20 is exceeded, do I need to respond by bringing a character back to my hand? What if I choose
to bring the character back to my hand who has the Rebel-Talk played on it, is the Rebel-Talk
then discarded?

A character moved from DI to GI does not require any GI to control until your next org phase. Changes to GI happen immediately and could cause you to exceed your GI limit. This is resolved on your next org phase. I would have to read Rebel talk if it's played on a character, then yes it would be discarded when you return the character to your hand.

5) Can you tap Akhorahil (permanent event) and use his -1 to body effect AFTER a body check
roll has been made on a wounded character? Essentially, if you can use this ability as an
interrupt to eliminate a character once a body check roll is made that ties a character's body it
could be quite useful. Alternatively, if you have to use his ability before the roll is made, it doesn't seem like it would be that
useful.

No you can't use the ability after the roll. It's a gamble to begin with, you don't use it before the roll either. You use it sometime during the m/h phase and pray that an attack you toss at them causes them to be wounded, or they get wounded by the auto attack, or some other mechanism, etc.

6) Was the text on the character Gloin corrected to state "+2 direct influence against Blue
Mountain Dwarves faction" instead of "against Blue Mountain Dwarves"? I seemed to recall
reading about this clarification somehwere but I don't see Gloin listed in the errata section of
the Universal Rules doc.

Correct Gloin has +2 against the blue mountain dwarves faction, not characters

7) I understand that any item except for The One Ring can be stored at a haven, and that the
character storing the item must make a successful corruption check to store it. What if I have
a character who is carrying 3 items and he wants to store them all? Does he have to pass a
single corruption check to store all 3? Or does he have to make 3 separate corruption checks
with each corruption check being modified to not include corruption points from the item(s) he
has already stored? Also, is storing items only done during the organization phase?

You store items during the org phase normally, there are cards that allow you to store outside this phase (safe from shadow, etc).
You choose which item you want to store, count up all corruption points on the character (including the item to be stored) and have to get higher than it.
Then you remove the item from the character and place it off to the side into your MP pile.
You then can choose the 2nd item you want to store, doing the same process as above.
Each storing is a seperate check.

8 ) I understand that allies are considered to be characters only for the purposes of combat and
skill use. Roac the Raven has the skill of a diplomat, thus can you play a Lordly Presence on
him when attempting to bring in a faction? What about other cards like A Friend or Three?
Generally speaking, allies can not attempt to bring factions into play unless specifically stated
that they can like with Roac, is this correct? Could I play A Friend or Three on Roac during a
faction influence attempt?

Allies in general can't influence factions unless otherwise stated on the card. Allies can use any skill card that they have the appropriate skill for ie Tom can use marvels told, Lindon the Whatever can use risky blow, etc. A friend or Three isn't played on Roac. It's "played" as a bonus to the roll.

9) The errata on the hazard creature Buthrakaur the Green states: "Any hazard creatures played
using the ability of Buthrakaur the Green need not be keyed to anything and are in fact not
keyed to anything." So if I am understanding this correctly, it means that I could unload my
entire hand of non-unique orcs and trolls on the company in question and completely ignore
whether or not they can legally be keyed to the site or regions in question and none of which
count against the hazard limit. Is this right? Also, to be able to use this ability, what is
considered to be having "faced" Buthrakaur that turn? If Dark Quarrels is used for example to cancel the attack by Buthrakaur,
then he hasn't been "faced" and thus you couldn't use his
special ability to play additional hazard creatures, correct?

You are correct you can unload with your orcs / trolls totally bypassing the HL and playability restrictions. A company is considered to have "faced" the attack if it's canceled. It's especially nasty to catch a balrog company traveling from Moria to the Under-gates and getting orc/troll rained on.

10) In the Universal Rules Document by B. Took when discussing the Sideboard, he states:
"The sideboard can contain any mix of resources, characters, and hazards, so long as
you do not duplicate non-unique cards."
Is this a mis-print and does he mean to say "so long as you do not duplicate unique cards."??
Surely you can duplicate non-unique cards in your sideboard, just as you can have duplicates
in your play deck, right? If I am correct here, I would like to suggest an amendement to the
URL in this regard.

I think he meant to say as long as you don't exceed the unique/non-unique limits of the deck. IE a hero deck can only have 3 copies of each non-unique / 1 unique copy of all cards in his deck / sideboard combined.

11) Am I allowed to look through my discard pile at any time?

I have to double check, but I think you are. I'm not 100% sure on this one.

12) Am I correct that you do not have to enter the site (and face automatic attacks) in order to play
cards like The Windlord Found Me (or any other non-item, faction, ally cards which don't specify that you must enter the site
to play them)?

Incorrect. Any resource that requires the use of the site, requires you to enter and face any automatic attacks in general. Being at a site is not the same as using a site. (IE Return of the King, White Tree, just require you to be at the site, it doesn't actually use the site)

13) In regards to Dreams of Lore - again, I am not entering the site here, correct? I am only tapping
the site and thus don't have to face any automatic attacks right? Does this mean that it would be
impossible to play both Dreams of Lore AND an item at the same site during the same turn?

I would need to read the text of Dreams of Lore, but most likely you are incorrect.

14) Is there any place to view the contents of the various Player's Guides online? It seems that most
of these are extremely expensive and I can't afford to purchase them, however I would very
much like to look over the contents.

They're not really worth reading as most are out of date with the current interpertations of rules.

15) There are no restrictions on sideboard balancing, correct? So I could have 30 hazards in my
sideboard and nothing else?

There are no restrictions on sideboard balance. You could have 30 hazards and nothing else.

16) Elf-stone states: "+2 direct influence used against an Elf character or an Elf faction." Due to
the word "OR" which is used, am I correct in guessing that if the direct influence is being used
to control an Elf, that you can not also use the +2 bonus to influence an Elf faction? On the
other hand, if you used it to bring in an Elf faction first, you could then subsequently use it towards an Elf character by
placing the character under the direct influence of the character carrying the Elf-stone? The character Thrain II text states: "+3
direct influence against Dwarves
and Dwarf factions." Since his wording uses "AND" I am assuming that he can continually use
a +3 bonus towards dwarf characters and dwarf faction influence attempts at the same time,
correct? Finally, Glorfindel's text "+1 direct influence against Elves" can not be used as a bonus
to influence an elf faction can it?

All 3 function exactly the same. ICE had poor wording on alot of cards. You can choose to use the restricted direct influence on either controlling characters or playing factions, but not both at the same time. You can also swap back and forth as you choose. So in the above example, the character with elf stone could control an elf 1 turn, remove the elf from DI the next turn and influence a faction, and then on the next turn bring the elf back under direct influence.

17) The card The Moon is Dead states that "All Undead attacks receive +1 strike and +1 prowess.
All Undead automatic attacks are duplicated. Discard this card when an undead attack is
defeated." So my question is this: if I defeat the first automatic attack (and thus The Moon is
Dead is discarded), does the second (duplicate) automatic attack still exist and have to be faced?
If so, does this second automatic attack still get the +1 strike and prowess bonuses?

I have to double check, but I believe the 2nd attack continues to exist and must be faced, but would lose the +1 strike and +1 prowess.

-Sauron

If you defeat the 1th auto attack, The Moon is Dead is discarded, so there is no 2nd automatic attack.

Sauron wrote:In the future please break up the questions into single posts, it'll make answering and discussing the answers easier. Not everyone wants to read through a big long post and answer every question or may not know the answer to everything. If you break up the post into single questions, people who know just the specific answer are more likely to answer your post.

Okay, no problem. I can do this. Thanks for the input. I honestly thought that it would be preferred for me to make a single post rather than clutter up the forum with 17 separate posts, but I don't mind doing this if it is preferred.
And I certainly don't expect one person to answer all questions....just anyone chime in on any they know the answers to and care to contribute.

the Jabberwock wrote: 1) Untapped characters must be assigned strikes from an attack before tapped or wounded
characters can be assigned strikes. Does this rule also apply to allies in the company? Must an
untapped ally face a strike (if he can legally do so), before allowing the hazard player to assign
strikes to tapped or wounded characters?

Sauron wrote:
Yes allies are considered characters for the purposes of combat. Also note there is a little used rule that people rarely use that a resource player choose to forgo assigning strikes and allow the hazard player to assign all strikes of an attack.

Thanks for this additional info!

the Jabberwock wrote: 4) This question deals with the same concepts as the question above. What if my opponent plays
a Rebel-Talk on one of my characters who is being controlled by direct influence and this causes me to exceed my General
Influence allowance of 20? Do I wait until my next organization phase to make changes? When is the target character removed
from direct influence, immediately or during my next organization phase? Once my General Influence of
20 is exceeded, do I need to respond by bringing a character back to my hand? What if I choose
to bring the character back to my hand who has the Rebel-Talk played on it, is the Rebel-Talk
then discarded?

Sauron wrote:
A character moved from DI to GI does not require any GI to control until your next org phase. Changes to GI happen immediately and could cause you to exceed your GI limit. This is resolved on your next org phase. I would have to read Rebel talk if it's played on a character, then yes it would be discarded when you return the character to your hand.

So by this logic, is this scenario possible?:
You play Rebel-Talk on one of my character during my M/H phase. The character is immediately removed from under his controlling character's direct influence and my GI limit is temporarily exceeded.
Then during my next organization phase, I must resolve my exceeded GI limit. To resolve this, I choose to bring the character in question (with the Rebel-Talk on him) back into my hand. Doing so then discards the
Rebel-Talk permanent event. At this point, what is to prevent me from replaying the character immediately now that I've freed myself from the Rebel-Talk? Wouldn't this be legal since it is still my organization phase as long
as I haven't already played a character this turn and he can legally be played back under a controlling characters direct influence?

the Jabberwock wrote: 5) Can you tap Akhorahil (permanent event) and use his -1 to body effect AFTER a body check
roll has been made on a wounded character? Essentially, if you can use this ability as an
interrupt to eliminate a character once a body check roll is made that ties a character's body it
could be quite useful. Alternatively, if you have to use his ability before the roll is made, it doesn't seem like it would be that
useful.

Sauron wrote:
No you can't use the ability after the roll. It's a gamble to begin with, you don't use it before the roll either. You use it sometime during the m/h phase and pray that an attack you toss at them causes them to be wounded, or they get wounded by the auto attack, or some other mechanism, etc.

Wow, so you can't even use the ability once a character fails against a strike and BEFORE the body check? Doesn't that make this card essentially worthless? Does anyone realistically play with Akhorahil in their deck?

the Jabberwock wrote: 8 ) I understand that allies are considered to be characters only for the purposes of combat and
skill use. Roac the Raven has the skill of a diplomat, thus can you play a Lordly Presence on
him when attempting to bring in a faction? What about other cards like A Friend or Three?
Generally speaking, allies can not attempt to bring factions into play unless specifically stated
that they can like with Roac, is this correct? Could I play A Friend or Three on Roac during a
faction influence attempt?

Sauron wrote:
Allies in general can't influence factions unless otherwise stated on the card. Allies can use any skill card that they have the appropriate skill for ie Tom can use marvels told, Lindon the Whatever can use risky blow, etc. A friend or Three isn't played on Roac. It's "played" as a bonus to the roll.

This is very good information...as are all of your answers! Thank you very much! I really appreciate how you not only answer the question, but you expand and give additional insight as well!
One follow up question here...so you are saying that A Friend or Three CAN be played on a faction influence attempt using Roac? The reason I ask is because the card text states:
"For every character in the influencing character's company, A Friend or Three gives a +1 modification to an influence check or to a corruption check made by a character in the same company."
It specifies "character" twice...so I wasn't sure if it would be illegal to play it using Roac since he is not a character.

the Jabberwock wrote: 9) The errata on the hazard creature Buthrakaur the Green states: "Any hazard creatures played
using the ability of Buthrakaur the Green need not be keyed to anything and are in fact not
keyed to anything." So if I am understanding this correctly, it means that I could unload my
entire hand of non-unique orcs and trolls on the company in question and completely ignore
whether or not they can legally be keyed to the site or regions in question and none of which
count against the hazard limit. Is this right? Also, to be able to use this ability, what is
considered to be having "faced" Buthrakaur that turn? If Dark Quarrels is used for example to cancel the attack by Buthrakaur,
then he hasn't been "faced" and thus you couldn't use his
special ability to play additional hazard creatures, correct?

Sauron wrote:
You are correct you can unload with your orcs / trolls totally bypassing the HL and playability restrictions. A company is considered to have "faced" the attack if it's canceled. It's especially nasty to catch a balrog company traveling from Moria to the Under-gates and getting orc/troll rained on.

Very good to know this....so essentially if my opponent moves to any Shadow-Hold and I am holding Buthrukaur there is nothing he can do to prevent the orc/troll storm from coming because even if he cancels him, he is still considered to be "faced." I actually went back through the Universal Rules Doc and found the following two statements in the glossary under "Attack":
- A canceled attack has no effect on its target company, except that the company is considered in its history to have faced the attack.
- An attack is considered faced by a company if it successfully resolves in its chain of effects.
Aren't these 2 statements contradictory or am I missing something here?

the Jabberwock wrote:
11) Am I allowed to look through my discard pile at any time?

Sauron wrote: I have to double check, but I think you are. I'm not 100% sure on this one.

Thanks for this info. If you or anyone else finds out for certain, please do let me know!

the Jabberwock wrote:
12) Am I correct that you do not have to enter the site (and face automatic attacks) in order to play
cards like The Windlord Found Me (or any other non-item, faction, ally cards which don't specify that you must enter the site
to play them)?

Sauron wrote:
Incorrect. Any resource that requires the use of the site, requires you to enter and face any automatic attacks in general. Being at a site is not the same as using a site. (IE Return of the King, White Tree, just require you to be at the site, it doesn't actually use the site)

Ok, so how do you know for sure if the card requires you to "use the site"? So you are saying when I play the card The Windlord Found Me that I must face BOTH the site's automatic attacks in addition to the attacks listed on The Windlord Found Me card?

the Jabberwock wrote:
13) In regards to Dreams of Lore - again, I am not entering the site here, correct? I am only tapping
the site and thus don't have to face any automatic attacks right? Does this mean that it would be
impossible to play both Dreams of Lore AND an item at the same site during the same turn?

Sauron wrote:
I would need to read the text of Dreams of Lore, but most likely you are incorrect.

If anyone can further clarify this, it would be most appreciated! Dreams of Lore instructs you to tap the site when it is played...that makes me think that you wouldn't be able to also play an item that requires tapping the site, but perhaps I'm incorrect here?

the Jabberwock wrote: 16) Elf-stone states: "+2 direct influence used against an Elf character or an Elf faction." Due to
the word "OR" which is used, am I correct in guessing that if the direct influence is being used
to control an Elf, that you can not also use the +2 bonus to influence an Elf faction? On the
other hand, if you used it to bring in an Elf faction first, you could then subsequently use it towards an Elf character by
placing the character under the direct influence of the character carrying the Elf-stone? The character Thrain II text states: "+3
direct influence against Dwarves
and Dwarf factions." Since his wording uses "AND" I am assuming that he can continually use
a +3 bonus towards dwarf characters and dwarf faction influence attempts at the same time,
correct? Finally, Glorfindel's text "+1 direct influence against Elves" can not be used as a bonus
to influence an elf faction can it?

Sauron wrote: All 3 function exactly the same. ICE had poor wording on alot of cards. You can choose to use the restricted direct influence on either controlling characters or playing factions, but not both at the same time. You can also swap back and forth as you choose. So in the above example, the character with elf stone could control an elf 1 turn, remove the elf from DI the next turn and influence a faction, and then on the next turn bring the elf back under direct influence.

Wow, I guess I've been playing this wrong all along then! So just to be 100% certain here.... you are saying that if Thrain II is using his +3 bonus towards dwarves and dwarf factions to control a character that he CAN NOT use the +3 to bring in a dwarf faction at the same time (even though his card says "and" on it)? Also, what if he is only using 1 unit of this +3 bonus to control a character, can he use the other 2 units of the bonus to put towards a faction influence attempt?

the Jabberwock wrote: 17) The card The Moon is Dead states that "All Undead attacks receive +1 strike and +1 prowess.
All Undead automatic attacks are duplicated. Discard this card when an undead attack is
defeated." So my question is this: if I defeat the first automatic attack (and thus The Moon is
Dead is discarded), does the second (duplicate) automatic attack still exist and have to be faced?
If so, does this second automatic attack still get the +1 strike and prowess bonuses?

Ringbearer wrote:
If you defeat the 1th auto attack, The Moon is Dead is discarded, so there is no 2nd automatic attack.

Thanks for this info!


Thanks once again gentleman for all the help and info!!

the Jabberwock wrote: 4) This question deals with the same concepts as the question above. What if my opponent plays
a Rebel-Talk on one of my characters who is being controlled by direct influence and this causes me to exceed my General
Influence allowance of 20? Do I wait until my next organization phase to make changes? When is the target character removed
from direct influence, immediately or during my next organization phase? Once my General Influence of
20 is exceeded, do I need to respond by bringing a character back to my hand? What if I choose
to bring the character back to my hand who has the Rebel-Talk played on it, is the Rebel-Talk
then discarded?

Sauron wrote:
A character moved from DI to GI does not require any GI to control until your next org phase. Changes to GI happen immediately and could cause you to exceed your GI limit. This is resolved on your next org phase. I would have to read Rebel talk if it's played on a character, then yes it would be discarded when you return the character to your hand.

the Jabberwock wrote: So by this logic, is this scenario possible?:
You play Rebel-Talk on one of my character during my M/H phase. The character is immediately removed from under his controlling character's direct influence and my GI limit is temporarily exceeded.
Then during my next organization phase, I must resolve my exceeded GI limit. To resolve this, I choose to bring the character in question (with the Rebel-Talk on him) back into my hand. Doing so then discards the
Rebel-Talk permanent event. At this point, what is to prevent me from replaying the character immediately now that I've freed myself from the Rebel-Talk? Wouldn't this be legal since it is still my organization phase as long
as I haven't already played a character this turn and he can legally be played back under a controlling characters direct influence?

You don't resolve the GI difference until the end of the org phase. So there is not time to replay the character.

the Jabberwock wrote: 5) Can you tap Akhorahil (permanent event) and use his -1 to body effect AFTER a body check
roll has been made on a wounded character? Essentially, if you can use this ability as an
interrupt to eliminate a character once a body check roll is made that ties a character's body it
could be quite useful. Alternatively, if you have to use his ability before the roll is made, it doesn't seem like it would be that
useful.

Sauron wrote:
No you can't use the ability after the roll. It's a gamble to begin with, you don't use it before the roll either. You use it sometime during the m/h phase and pray that an attack you toss at them causes them to be wounded, or they get wounded by the auto attack, or some other mechanism, etc.

the Jabberwock wrote: Wow, so you can't even use the ability once a character fails against a strike and BEFORE the body check? Doesn't that make this card essentially worthless? Does anyone realistically play with Akhorahil in their deck?

Basically it's worthless

the Jabberwock wrote: 8 ) I understand that allies are considered to be characters only for the purposes of combat and
skill use. Roac the Raven has the skill of a diplomat, thus can you play a Lordly Presence on
him when attempting to bring in a faction? What about other cards like A Friend or Three?
Generally speaking, allies can not attempt to bring factions into play unless specifically stated
that they can like with Roac, is this correct? Could I play A Friend or Three on Roac during a
faction influence attempt?

Sauron wrote:
Allies in general can't influence factions unless otherwise stated on the card. Allies can use any skill card that they have the appropriate skill for ie Tom can use marvels told, Lindon the Whatever can use risky blow, etc. A friend or Three isn't played on Roac. It's "played" as a bonus to the roll.

the Jabberwock wrote: This is very good information...as are all of your answers! Thank you very much! I really appreciate how you not only answer the question, but you expand and give additional insight as well!
One follow up question here...so you are saying that A Friend or Three CAN be played on a faction influence attempt using Roac? The reason I ask is because the card text states:
"For every character in the influencing character's company, A Friend or Three gives a +1 modification to an influence check or to a corruption check made by a character in the same company."
It specifies "character" twice...so I wasn't sure if it would be illegal to play it using Roac since he is not a character.

Hmm, I'll have to double check you make an interesting point.

the Jabberwock wrote: 9) The errata on the hazard creature Buthrakaur the Green states: "Any hazard creatures played
using the ability of Buthrakaur the Green need not be keyed to anything and are in fact not
keyed to anything." So if I am understanding this correctly, it means that I could unload my
entire hand of non-unique orcs and trolls on the company in question and completely ignore
whether or not they can legally be keyed to the site or regions in question and none of which
count against the hazard limit. Is this right? Also, to be able to use this ability, what is
considered to be having "faced" Buthrakaur that turn? If Dark Quarrels is used for example to cancel the attack by Buthrakaur,
then he hasn't been "faced" and thus you couldn't use his
special ability to play additional hazard creatures, correct?

Sauron wrote:
You are correct you can unload with your orcs / trolls totally bypassing the HL and playability restrictions. A company is considered to have "faced" the attack if it's canceled. It's especially nasty to catch a balrog company traveling from Moria to the Under-gates and getting orc/troll rained on.

the Jabberwock wrote: Very good to know this....so essentially if my opponent moves to any Shadow-Hold and I am holding Buthrukaur there is nothing he can do to prevent the orc/troll storm from coming because even if he cancels him, he is still considered to be "faced." I actually went back through the Universal Rules Doc and found the following two statements in the glossary under "Attack":
- A canceled attack has no effect on its target company, except that the company is considered in its history to have faced the attack.
- An attack is considered faced by a company if it successfully resolves in its chain of effects.
Aren't these 2 statements contradictory or am I missing something here?

No. If you play Buthrukaur and I reduce the hazard limit so that the card fizzles, they are not considered to have faced he attack, since the card never resolved in its chain of effects.

the Jabberwock wrote:
12) Am I correct that you do not have to enter the site (and face automatic attacks) in order to play
cards like The Windlord Found Me (or any other non-item, faction, ally cards which don't specify that you must enter the site
to play them)?

Sauron wrote:
Incorrect. Any resource that requires the use of the site, requires you to enter and face any automatic attacks in general. Being at a site is not the same as using a site. (IE Return of the King, White Tree, just require you to be at the site, it doesn't actually use the site)

the Jabberwock wrote: Ok, so how do you know for sure if the card requires you to "use the site"? So you are saying when I play the card The Windlord Found Me that I must face BOTH the site's automatic attacks in addition to the attacks listed on The Windlord Found Me card?

The Windlord Found me: Playable at an untapped Isengard, shadow-hold, or dark-hold during the site phase

You can't do anything during the site phase until you have faced and resolved any and all auto-attacks

the Jabberwock wrote:
13) In regards to Dreams of Lore - again, I am not entering the site here, correct? I am only tapping
the site and thus don't have to face any automatic attacks right? Does this mean that it would be
impossible to play both Dreams of Lore AND an item at the same site during the same turn?

Sauron wrote:
I would need to read the text of Dreams of Lore, but most likely you are incorrect.

the Jabberwock wrote: If anyone can further clarify this, it would be most appreciated! Dreams of Lore instructs you to tap the site when it is played...that makes me think that you wouldn't be able to also play an item that requires tapping the site, but perhaps I'm incorrect here?

Same as above - during the site phase playability requirement. You must face all automatic attacks. You can't play 2 things that both require you to tap the site, so you are correct no item that taps the site + dreams of lore.

the Jabberwock wrote: 16) Elf-stone states: "+2 direct influence used against an Elf character or an Elf faction." Due to
the word "OR" which is used, am I correct in guessing that if the direct influence is being used
to control an Elf, that you can not also use the +2 bonus to influence an Elf faction? On the
other hand, if you used it to bring in an Elf faction first, you could then subsequently use it towards an Elf character by
placing the character under the direct influence of the character carrying the Elf-stone? The character Thrain II text states: "+3
direct influence against Dwarves
and Dwarf factions." Since his wording uses "AND" I am assuming that he can continually use
a +3 bonus towards dwarf characters and dwarf faction influence attempts at the same time,
correct? Finally, Glorfindel's text "+1 direct influence against Elves" can not be used as a bonus
to influence an elf faction can it?

Sauron wrote: All 3 function exactly the same. ICE had poor wording on alot of cards. You can choose to use the restricted direct influence on either controlling characters or playing factions, but not both at the same time. You can also swap back and forth as you choose. So in the above example, the character with elf stone could control an elf 1 turn, remove the elf from DI the next turn and influence a faction, and then on the next turn bring the elf back under direct influence.

the Jabberwock wrote: Wow, I guess I've been playing this wrong all along then! So just to be 100% certain here.... you are saying that if Thrain II is using his +3 bonus towards dwarves and dwarf factions to control a character that he CAN NOT use the +3 to bring in a dwarf faction at the same time (even though his card says "and" on it)? Also, what if he is only using 1 unit of this +3 bonus to control a character, can he use the other 2 units of the bonus to put towards a faction influence attempt?

Correct if Thrain is using his restricted direct influence to control a character he CAN NOT use it to influence a faction. If he is using only a portion, the remainder CAN be used to influence a faction. The word AND on the card means it applies to either/or not just characters and not just factions.

Example:
Thrain controlling Oin, goes to influence the Blue Mountain Dwarves, Thrain would have +2 DI against them.
Thrain controlling Ioreth, goes to influence the Blue Mountain Dwarves, Thrain woudl have +4 DI against them.
Thrain controlling Gloin, goes to influence the Blue Mountain Dwarves, Thrain would have +0 DI against them.

12) Am I correct that you do not have to enter the site (and face automatic attacks) in order to play
cards like The Windlord Found Me (or any other non-item, faction, ally cards which don't specify that you must enter the site
to play them)?

Rules says that a company cannot do anything in site phase until it face AA, on-guard creature attack, and agent attack.
Ruling CoE #105 extend this inability on player.

the Jabberwock wrote: 5) Can you tap Akhorahil (permanent event) and use his -1 to body effect AFTER a body check
roll has been made on a wounded character? Essentially, if you can use this ability as an
interrupt to eliminate a character once a body check roll is made that ties a character's body it
could be quite useful. Alternatively, if you have to use his ability before the roll is made, it doesn't seem like it would be that
useful.

Sauron wrote:
No you can't use the ability after the roll. It's a gamble to begin with, you don't use it before the roll either. You use it sometime during the m/h phase and pray that an attack you toss at them causes them to be wounded, or they get wounded by the auto attack, or some other mechanism, etc.

the Jabberwock wrote: Wow, so you can't even use the ability once a character fails against a strike and BEFORE the body check? Doesn't that make this card essentially worthless? Does anyone realistically play with Akhorahil in their deck?

Sauron wrote: Basically it's worthless

This is new to me. Why can't you tap Akhorahil before any character's strike sequence?

Ringbearer wrote:If you defeat the 1th auto attack, The Moon is Dead is discarded, so there is no 2nd automatic attack.

I thought it was as Sauron said too. Is not the AA doubled when the company enters the site so the second AA is an already resolved effect?

Jose-san wrote:

Ringbearer wrote:If you defeat the 1th auto attack, The Moon is Dead is discarded, so there is no 2nd automatic attack.

I thought it was as Sauron said too. Is not the AA doubled when the company enters the site so the second AA is an already resolved effect?

I partially agree with you. Partially because I think that actions from The New Moon are triggered when Undead attacks are faced.*
The Moon is Dead works in this part like Incite Denizens/Minions. Incite Denizens/Minions creates duplicate and is discarded but duplicate persists.

*) There may be multiple Undead automatic-attacks at site and The Moon is Dead may be discarded between facing them.

Jose-san wrote:This is new to me. Why can't you tap Akhorahil before any character's strike sequence?

In strike sequence and between strike sequences, but not between wounding character and body check.

Konrad Klar wrote:

Jose-san wrote:This is new to me. Why can't you tap Akhorahil before any character's strike sequence?

In strike sequence and between strike sequences, but not between wounding character and body check.

Ok, that's what I thought. You can wait to see which character faces a cave-worm strike before tapping Akhorahil, you just can't tap her after the strike roll, right?

Jose-san wrote:Ok, that's what I thought. You can wait to see which character faces a cave-worm strike before tapping Akhorahil, you just can't tap her after the strike roll, right?

Correction.
After reading carefully relevant annotations in CRF I think that cards/effects that only modifies body, but otherwise does not affect strike are not allowed in strike sequence.
Justification:

Annotation 17: The only actions that may be declared during a strike sequence are
those outlined in Annotation 18.

Annotation 18: When a defending player chooses to resolve a strike against a
particular character, the only actions that may be taken by either player until the strike
dice-roll is made are the following: playing hazard cards that affect the strike, the
attacker may decide to use any or all of his remaining -1 modifications due to strikes
in excess of the company's size, a target untapped character may take a -3
modification so that he will not automatically tap, and the defending character may
play resource cards that affect the strike. An action that has the condition that a target
character tap, but which otherwise has an effect not outlined here, may not be
declared at this point.
This is true even if the recipient of the strike would be the target character tapping and
thus receive -1 to his prowess.

Annotation 19: Following each successful strike or failed strike, a body check must
be rolled (unless the failed strike has no body). [...]

Underlines mine.

According Annotation 19 a body check takes place after strike, thus is not part of a strike.

Between strike assignment and first strike sequence there is no time for declaring anything. So only chance for using Akhorahil against character that is assigned to strike (or will be assigned for sure) is attack with more than one strike, or against company with only one untapped character (or an attack where attacker chooses defending characters, or given character must be assigned to strike for other reasons).

I apologize for previous incorect answer.

Humm, then, what does this mean exactly?

Turn Sequence Rulings wrote:There is time between the strike sequences to take actions that are otherwise legal.

My interpretation so far was that there was time before each strike sequence to play hazards not related to the strike.

Between, so after previous nad before next.

Konrad Klar wrote:Between, so after previous nad before next.

So, suppose I play Ice Dragon on a 3-character company. The 2 strikes are assigned and I can't tap Akhorahil before the resolution of the first strike, but I can tap her before the resolution of the second strike. Is that right?