Council of Elrond

Hi there,

has the card text of hour of need been changed in any fashion?
If not, the only clarification with this card is that the site it's played at is tapped afterwards. This doesn't prevent me from playing multiple hours at an already tapped site. Is that correct?

Thx!

there are no further clarifications/errata or any changes in Hour of Need besides the one you mention

but being at a tapped site prevents you from tapping it to play a faction so you can't play a faction with Hour of Need when being at a tapped site

That would essentially mean "playable only at an untapped site", right?

in any case it's played in the orga-phase, Ok?

it doesn't has to say that the diplomat has to be on an untapped site as an untapped site is the standard playability condition for playing a faction (or ally, or item) - Hour of Need doesn't change that condition

and the fact that you play it during the org phase has nothing to do with it either - sites can tap/untap during any phase if the appropriate effect is there

the site does not tap in effect of you playing Hour of Need but in effect of playing a faction (if you are successful)

|Highwayman| wrote:but being at a tapped site prevents you from tapping it to play a faction

Site is tapped after succesfull play of faction, not tapped to play a faction. Untapped site, site phase etc. all are superseded by condition described on Hour of Need.

Konrad Klar wrote:

|Highwayman| wrote:but being at a tapped site prevents you from tapping it to play a faction

Site is tapped after succesfull play of faction, not tapped to play a faction. Untapped site, site phase etc. all are superseded by condition described on Hour of Need.

so basicaly what stops me from normaly (wihtou any extra cards) playing a faction (or item, or ally) at a site that is already tapped?

for some reason I can't do it

and I don't see what part of Hour of Need changes that

|Highwayman| wrote:so basicaly what stops me from normaly (wihtou any extra cards) playing a faction (or item, or ally) at a site that is already tapped?

Site must be untapped. "X must be untapped" and "tap X" are different things.

Hour of Need sets it's own conditions for bringing faction into play.

but you can't tap a card that's already tapped

and show me where on Hour of Need it is said that the site need not be untapped (all the cards I can think of that can be played at a tapped site have that written in their text)

|Highwayman| wrote:but you can't tap a card that's already tapped

Exactly. Normally you need untapped site to play faction, item, ally. Then if playing is succesfull, site taps.

Prerequisite: untapped site, site phase.
Effect: resource is played and site taps.

Normal prerequisites are replaced by requirements of Hour of Need.

Look at Thing Stolen

Playable after a faction is successfully played at a Shadow-hold [S] or Dark-hold [D]. Tap a character at the site to play a non-unique, non-hoard minor or major item (even if the item is not normally playable there). ...Shagrat could not both fight and keep hold of his treasure...-LotRVI

Is written that site may be tapped? In some situations after playing minion faction site is untapped, but usually not. In your opinion, item may be played at tapped site as result of this card?

Konrad wrote:Normal prerequisites are replaced by requirements of Hour of Need.

I just don't see where/how Hour of Need changes those prerequisites

about Thing Stolen - I've always seen it as the same as playing an extra minor after successfuly a site, and along the same lines I was told (by Mark I think) that Thing Stolen cannot be played if the site doesn't tap (either cuz it's already tapped or cuz of playing a faction under a leader)

untapped non-Warrior non-Wizard diplomat during the organization phase if you have a faction in your hand.

That's all.

CRF:

Hour of Need
May not be played in the Under-deeps.

If successful Hour of Need taps the site it is played at (not the site associated with the faction)

Cannot be played at a tapped site

Will not allow the play of a 'free' minor item when played in the organization phase

Regardless of what we think or feel, as written in the CRF the site must be untapped.

while I agree with CRF in case of Hour of Need, unless it was ICE's ruling we can always argue with and change what was ruled before as after ICE stopped taking care of MECCG there's nothing truly official

it would really help if we knew hoe whoever ruled so justified this ruling - it could bring new light into the discussion

The "cannot be played at a tapped site" and the "no minor item" rulings are both ICE-age rulings.

Sauron wrote:CRF:

Hour of Need
May not be played in the Under-deeps.

If successful Hour of Need taps the site it is played at (not the site associated with the faction)

Cannot be played at a tapped site

Will not allow the play of a 'free' minor item when played in the organization phase

Regardless of what we think or feel, as written in the CRF the site must be untapped.

Ops... My copy of CRF must be old (pre-ICE? ).