Council of Elrond

Hi,

we had some rule discusssion just online concerning the playing of hidden haven as starting stage card:

Summary:

1. When HH is played the satrting side that HH should be used for as to be played immediatly with it. If the opponent drafts HH at the same time and with the identical side, both HH bounces (like characters even it is non unique.

2. If HH is played with the Ruins version of the White towers the opponent can not use the haven version of White Towers as starting side.

Is this correct. There is not a clear opinion on this till now?

Cheers

Heiner

1. Right,.
All condition of playing a starting stage resource permanent-event must be fullfilled. Hidden Haven is playable at a site, so the site must be decided at the moment when HH is revealed. (For contrast the Huntsman's Garb is not played on Alatar; it is palced on Alatar if he is in play).

CRF, Errata (Cards) wrote:If both players reveal this as a starting stage card, on the same site, at the same time, it
is set aside, and may not be played on that site by either player until the game begins.

White Hand, Getting Ready to Play, Starting Site wrote:Your starting company may begin play at The White Towers or at any Ruins & Lairs
site in Rhudaur or Arthedain. If you start at a Ruins & Lairs site, one of your starting
stage resource cards may be a Hidden Haven played on your starting site.

2. Right.
This restriction comes from text of Hidden Haven - "Othen Fallen-wizards may not use this site as a Wizardhaven".*
That leads to undefined situation, if during dratf a player A has HH played on The White Towers and player B (C, D, E) has company with Orcs and Elfs and does not have Hidden Haven in pool.

*) Because a things cannot be not complicated

CRF, Rulings by Term, Site wrote:A permanent-event played on a site affects only the copy of the site it is played on,
unless otherwise specified. A permanent-event not played on a site affects all versions of affected sites.

that would make "Othen Fallen-wizards may not use this site as a Wizardhaven" (and similar records on other cards from WH) practically meaningless (if taken strictly).