White Tree possible to play by FW even it is already in play

[Smaug]

Hi guys,

a question popped up during last worlds.

Is it possible to play the white Tree as fallen Wizard even your opponent has already played it? On wizards prove is (ignore the card text of ...). So it is not unique, or?

Thx for an answer!

Salut

Heiner

[Konrad Klar]

You may play The White Tree at one of your Wizardhavens [W] if Sapling of the White Tree is stored there. Place Wizard's Trove with The White Tree-which is worth full marshalling points. Your Wizardhaven [W] become protected. Ignore the text of The White Tree.
Alternatively, you may store one miscellaneous marshalling point card at one of your Wizardhavens [W]. Any reference to the site where the card can normally be stored are transferred instead to the Wizardhaven [W]. Place Wizard's Trove with the stored card-which is worth full marshalling points.

I think that "Ignore the text of The White Tree." is effective when The White Tree is successfully played, not when The White Tree is being played.
Likewise "Your Wizardhaven [W] become protected." is effective when The White Tree is successfully played, not when The White Tree is being played.
So no.

Additionally when unique card is to be played it is checked whether its other copy, or manifestation is in play, not what is text of this other copy, or manifestation.
So it is not possible to play an unique X, if copy/manifestation of X is in play, even if text of this copy/manifestation is ignored/changed (including Unique keyword).

[Mordakai]

That was me!!



At worlds it was decided that the word "Unique" in the card is not part of the text, so Wizard's Trove does not make any difference, the first in playing the Tree gets the "monopoly" of it, and the other just mourns in shame for being too slow. The reason was, if I remember correctly, that "Unique, Sage only at Minas Tirith. Playable only if a Sapling of the White Tree is at Minas Tirith" are the requirements for playing the card, and the rest (the "effects", or call it as you like) are the text. As a matter of fact, Wizard's Trove changes the requirements for playing the card, so it makes sense it only deletes the rest, which are the conditions that can affect the game after that.

Wizard's Trove states that the White Tree can be played... bla bla.. and after that you ignore the text, so first the conditions for playing the tree must be fulfilled, and after that the white tree becomex "textless" (AFAIK, the actions in the cards are executed in the same order they are written) so this is my interpretation of the issue:

- If you are the FW and the Tree is already in play (played by a Hero player), you cant play it, as it is unique, and the text of the card has not been "deleted".

- If you are the Hero player (or another FW) and the tree has been played by a FW before, the text is already "deleted" son in theory you could play it, because it has no text.

I don't have any rules booklet with me right now, but maybe in the description of the cards it says something about "card's text" that can throw some light in this matter, but, even disliking it, I must say that all that is inside the text box of the card is text, so after being played with Wizard's Trove, it can be played by your opponent. However, if it is played without Wizard's Trove, it cannot be played again with it, because it remains unique, and Wizard's Trove removes the uniqueness of the card after being played, and you cannot play something unique that is already on the table...

But in the other hand, as Konrad said:

when unique card is to be played it is checked whether its other copy, or manifestation is in play, not what is text of this other copy, or manifestation.
So it is not possible to play an unique X, if copy/manifestation of X is in play, even if text of this copy/manifestation is ignored/changed (including Unique keyword).

and that will prevent the double play of the White Tree in all ocasions.

Maybe an official decision should be made about this. I'll remain sitting in the fence untill someone either convinces me or rules it as official

EDIT: After reading again Konrad Klar's opinion again, I think he's right.The first tree played may have lost his uniqueness, but the second one played is still unique (in the moment of being played with or without Wizard's Trove), and when trying to enter the game it is not allowed because another copy if it is in play (the one in play may not be unique, but the one you are trying to play is, and that is enough to prevent you from playing it).

Final opinion from me: The White Tree cannot be duplicated in any case (it's how it was solved in worlds, by the way).