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Timing: Shadow of Mordor and drawing of additional cards

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:39 pm
by Konrad Klar
Shadow of Mordor wrote:Environment. The hazard limit for each company is increased by one for every card over one drawn by that by that company during its movement/hazard phase. Additionally, if Doors of Night is in play, during each company's movement/hazard phase, the hazard player may draw one additional card for every card in excess of one draw by his opponent. Cannot be duplicated. '...Alas! Mordor draws all wicked things...' -LotRI
"Additionally, if Doors of Night is in play, during each company's movement/hazard phase, the hazard player may draw one additional card for every card in excess of one draw by his opponent."

does not state that "every card in excess of one draw by his opponent" must necessarily be a card drawn for movement (i.e. at the start of M/H phase), but such cards may count too as drawn in excess of one. Cards drawn in result of Dark Tryst count too.
Timings of both mentioned drawings are quite different. First takes place outside of any chain of effects (and is followed by drawing made by hazard player), Dark Tryst is declared and resolved in chain of effects.

Questions are:

- are drawings allowed by Shadow of Mordor made in uniform way for both cases?
- whether they are made in uniform, or non-uniform way, what is(are) their timing(s) (are drawn immediately, in next chain of effects, in other way)?

Re: Timing: Shadow of Mordor and drawing of additional cards

Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:17 am
by Bandobras Took
My first instinct is to treat each individual card draw as an action triggered by a passive condition. If the resource player draws an extra card, then the hazard player's drawing of the card can become the first declared action in the chain of effects immediately following whatever is causing the resource player to draw.

Re: Timing: Shadow of Mordor and drawing of additional cards

Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:50 am
by Konrad Klar
Strictly speaking a passive condition causes an action to happen as stated on a card already in play.
But here what is stated on a card is not enough. There must be also hazard player's will, that may, but does not must draw a card.

But:

"If the resource player draws an extra card, then the hazard player's drawing of the card can become the first declared action in the chain of effects immediately following whatever is causing the resource player to draw."

would work.

Any ruling would be better than no ruling.

Re: Timing: Shadow of Mordor and drawing of additional cards

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:31 pm
by Theo
Seems sensible to me.

Confirmation reference:
CoE #74 wrote:Does Shadow of Mordor activate when Dark Tryst is played, or only based on card draw at beginning of the m/h phase?

*** It is triggered any time cards are drawn, including the play of Dark Tryst.
I would also believe this would trigger when cards are drawn during normal reconciliation of hand at the end of the phase. (Discussion for when the company is returned to site of origin can be taken to Alone and Unadvised AND Returning to a site of origin thread.) But I imagine that may not have been the original intent.

An alternative ruling might be the errata, "... the hazard player may draw one additional card for every card in excess of one draw by his opponent when a new site is revealed".

Re: Timing: Shadow of Mordor and drawing of additional cards

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:09 pm
by CDavis7M
"during each company's movement/hazard phase the hazard player may draw one additional card for every card in excess of one draw by his opponent"

"Removing the site of origin and resetting to hand size are simultaneous actions, and they are the last actions in any movement/hazard phase."