Council of Elrond

kober wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 1:14 am During site phase, may WHCtK/ACM be played just after AA and before playing a normally-playable item at a site?

Yes it may. See this post.... viewtopic.php?f=143&t=3327&p=27248#p27227

Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:48 pm

Shapeshifter wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:24 pm

Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:14 pm Still it does not explain why "site with no auto-attack" is mentioned.

I would say that the answer in RD #69 only mentions sites with no auto-attack because the question was about them. The question seems to refer to a previous discussion that was not published in RD #69, though. Here is the whole quote:

Rulings Digest #69 wrote:If you can do it at a site with no auto-attack during the site phase that has no company, why couldn't you do it during the org?
*** You can't use We Have Come to Kill at a site with no auto-attack during the site phase at a site that has no company.

Summing up: WHCTK cannot be used to bring in a character at a site that is not in play.

OK. It at least explains why "site with no auto-attack" was specifically mentioned (because someone specifically said that at "site with no auto-attack" this is possible, not necessarily because this is possible at sites with AA in opinion of answering person).

Now my opinion: if bringing a character in play at site X would be the action that requires the site X as a target, then a player that lose all companies would have a hard times bringing any character in play.

Speculation: maybe playing WHCtK at a site with AA, where there's no company, during the site phase was already ruled out. Or maybe it was thought obvious because you can't do anything during the site phase at a site if you don't face the AA first, and only the case in which there is no AA needed a ruling.

Can WHCTK be played outside the Organization Phase if it creates a G.I. exceedance?

We Have Come to Kill does not create GI exceedance.
To play a character in result of We Have Come to Kill there must be enough free GI, or DI.

CRF, Errata (Cards), We Have Come to Kill wrote:We Have Come to Kill may be used to bring in agents, but not Ringwraiths. You must
have enough influence to control the character to play this card.

Because a character played in result of We Have Come to Kill is not determined prior/at declaration of the card, it is impossible to fulfill the condition given in last sentence.

It would probably be better written as "Any character played as a result of We Have Come to Kill may not exceed your available influence at the time of play. If you have no such character available to play, We Have Come to Kill may not be declared."

Even if you not have such character card in hand at declaration of We Have Come to Kill, potentially you may have it when We Have Come to Kill resolves.
Some DI or GI may be freed in meantime, some character card may arrive (in result of Call of Home, or Dark Tryst etc.).

EDIT: fried -> freed

It depends on whether they meant "play" in the sense of "declare" or in the sense of "resolve."

Unlike Come at Need, or Hour of Need, the card does not require (at least by its text) a having in hand a card that would be played/placed according to its result. Additionally a conditions that would allow to play such card may change between declaration and resolution of We Have Come to Kill.

It seems like to me that sometimes ICE authors are sick when they need to put a simple things straight.
The simple thing is (in my opinion): you may not play a character in result of We Have Come to Kill if there is no enough influence to control the character.
And no: you are not stopped from declaring a We Have Come to Kill, and We Have Come to Kill is not stopped from resolving for this reason. Until We Have Come to Kill resolves it is not decided which character will be played, and it is not known whether there is enough influence to control him.

Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:05 am We Have Come to Kill does not create GI exceedance.
To play a character in result of We Have Come to Kill there must be enough free GI, or DI.

CRF, Errata (Cards), We Have Come to Kill wrote:We Have Come to Kill may be used to bring in agents, but not Ringwraiths. You must
have enough influence to control the character to play this card.

Because a character played in result of We Have Come to Kill is not determined prior/at declaration of the card, it is impossible to fulfill the condition given in last sentence.

The CRF entry answers my question. Odd, I thought for sure I checked the CRF prior to posting the question and somehow I missed this statement.

Thanks for posting!

the Jabberwock wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:41 am

Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:05 am We Have Come to Kill does not create GI exceedance.
To play a character in result of We Have Come to Kill there must be enough free GI, or DI.

CRF, Errata (Cards), We Have Come to Kill wrote:We Have Come to Kill may be used to bring in agents, but not Ringwraiths. You must
have enough influence to control the character to play this card.

Because a character played in result of We Have Come to Kill is not determined prior/at declaration of the card, it is impossible to fulfill the condition given in last sentence.

The CRF entry answers my question. Odd, I thought for sure I checked the CRF prior to posting the question and somehow I missed this statement.

Thanks for posting!

I have a follow up question to this:

Can a character be brought into play with WHCTK which creates a G.I. exceedance IF the character is brought into play during the Organization Phase?

CRF - Playing Characters
Rules Erratum: You may play a character even if you do not have enough influence to control them. However, if there are any characters you do not have the influence to control at the end of your organization phase, the character you brought into play this turn must be returned to your hand.

Which CRF erratum trumps the other?

A second question:

In regards to the trolls Burat, Tuma and Wuluag who get a mind reduction of -1 while in the same company.... when is this checked?
Example, during the site phase, I have 3 free G.I. and a company that contains Wuluag. May I use WHCTK to play Tuma in this company? Does his mind lower immediately in time to allow him to legally be played through WHCTK? Or does WHCTK check for "there must be enough free GI, or DI" prior to his mind lowering?

Today, an experienced player told me that I must organize within my influence prior to playing a second character with "a chance meeting" during my organization phase. But I am not sure why. Would playing ACM during the organization phase prevent you from playing another character normally?

the Jabberwock wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:58 pm Can a character be brought into play with WHCTK which creates a G.I. exceedance IF the character is brought into play during the Organization Phase?

No. We Have Come to Kill has its own restrictions.

the Jabberwock wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:58 pm In regards to the trolls Burat, Tuma and Wuluag who get a mind reduction of -1 while in the same company.... when is this checked?
Example, during the site phase, I have 3 free G.I. and a company that contains Wuluag. May I use WHCTK to play Tuma in this company? Does his mind lower immediately in time to allow him to legally be played through WHCTK? Or does WHCTK check for "there must be enough free GI, or DI" prior to his mind lowering?

Until at least two of them are in play in the same company the mind reduction effect does not happen.

CDavis7M wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:50 am Today, an experienced player told me that I must organize within my influence prior to playing a second character with "a chance meeting" during my organization phase. But I am not sure why. Would playing ACM during the organization phase prevent you from playing another character normally?

Organizing companies (including a bringing a character in play) may not be interrupted by any other action.
So ACM may be played before or after all organization changes.

So ACM may be played before or after all organization changes.

that is true, but is said example there was (at 1st) no DI to play ACM, so I call BS for this situation,

if after the play of the 1st character no GI or DI are free (after organisation) one cannot play ACM under the 1st characters DI for example

I've been trying to think of an example where you could "cheese" the influence cap and I cannot think of one. Since ACM/WHCtK require influence for bringing a character into play.

Is it seems like you should be able to just decide/change which character is played first to achieve the same result.

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