Ready to his will

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Makinal
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Ready to his will

Post by Makinal »

Can Ready to his will be used against an agent attack?

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Bandobras Took
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Re: Ready to his will

Post by Bandobras Took »

Playable on an Orc, Troll, Giant, Slayer, or Man hazard creature with one strike for each of its attacks.
No. Agents are not creatures.
Remember, NetRep rulings are official. This does not necessarily mean they are correct.

You probably aren't playing Fallen Wizards correctly. This prompted the backlash erratum that I will link to as soon as I notice it is officially posted. :)

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Makinal
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Re: Ready to his will

Post by Makinal »

I knew it.. Heiko made me doubt about that rule

Grishnakh
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Re: Ready to his will

Post by Grishnakh »

What about the DM insert rules page 4: "An Agent can be thought of as a hazard that acts as a creature..."???

May be there is a different between a creature in origin and a hazard that acts as a creature??

and:
""...for a starting play deck, each Agent ...counts as half a creature"???

Greets,
Heiko [-me_eye-]
Cheers,
Heiko / Grishnakh

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Konrad Klar
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Re: Ready to his will

Post by Konrad Klar »

Can be thought as that or as something else, but:
CRF, Rulings by Term, Agent wrote:Agents are not creatures.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.

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kober
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Re: Ready to his will

Post by kober »

Ready to His Will wrote:Playable on an Orc, Troll, Giant, Slayer, or Man hazard creature with one strike for each of its attacks.
Is that "one strike" the normal number of strikes or the current (i.e. potentially modified) number?
Example:
Minions Stir is in play. Orc-lieutant has been declared/resolved, and his attack has two strikes now (rather than his normal one strike). Is RtHW playable?

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CDavis7M
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Re: Ready to his will

Post by CDavis7M »

The "one strike" is technically the current as-modified number. But in actuality it is the the normal printed number because the timing rules. So yes, Ready to His Will can beat Minions Stir. I wrote about this here: viewtopic.php?f=128&t=4165
CDavis7M wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:39 pm
1B. An effect that applies to a category of cards or effects when they come into play does not beat an earlier played effect applying to specific cards or effects already in play (whether in that category or not), unless the subsequent effect is an on-going cancellation effect that cancels a category including the earlier effect. Such effects still potentially work but they don't win the timing race. This simplified rule is based on the Passive Condition rules including Annotation 9.
  • Canonical Example: Ready to His Will is played on Assassin to cancel the 1-strike attack and make him an ally. Rank Upon Rank cannot be played in response to increase Assassin's strikes from 1 to 2 in order to beat Ready to His Will, which requires a 1-strike attack. Rank Upon Ranks effect applies to any non-agent Man attack that comes into play while Ready to His Will specifically applies to the Assassin creature card already in play. Note that if Assassin comes into play when Rank Upon Rank is already in play, then Ready to His Will can still be played in response to Rank Upon Rank's triggered effect, beating Rank Upon Rank per Rule 1. Note that neither Ready to His Will nor Rank Upon Rank can be played in response to the Assassin per Rule 1C. The same reason goes for Ready to His Will vs. Minions Stir on an Orc-lieutenant, etc.
This is because effects implemented using passive conditions have a delay because they are triggered in the following chain of effects (Per Annotation 9). You can tell that Minions Stir uses passive conditions because it says "The number of strikes and prowess of each Orc and Troll attack is increased by one." Meaning that this effect does NOT apply to a specific Orc/Troll attack target in play. Instead, it is a "non-targeted" effect that applies to each Orc/Troll attack as the come into play. Accordingly, this effect only happens once the Orc Creature card resolves in a chain of effects. But since that chain of effects with the Orc is currently resolving, no other effects can declared, and so the effect of Minions Stir must be the first declared effect in the following chain of effects. Meaning, that Ready to His Will can be played in response to the triggered effect of Minions Stir. However, unlike Minions Stir, Ready to His Will has a specific target in play (the Orc, or other creature card), meaning that the normal "first in, last out" rule applies (there is no delay caused by passive conditions). So when Ready to His Will resolves, the Orc still has their original non-modified number of strikes. The effect of Minions Stir will fail because the creature has become an ally.

However, your opponent could tap Hoarmûrath of Dír in response to Ready to His Will to give the creature +1 before Ready to His Will would be able to take effect. This is because Hoarmûrath of Dír has a specific target and would resolve "first in, last out" without delay.

These ICE rulings go into it. Ready to His beats Minions Stir and Rank Upon Rank.
ICE Digest 578 wrote:>1. Timing question: Someone plays an assassin on me, I respond
>with REady to his will, he wants to respond with rank upon rank so
>that the assassin will have 2 strikes and RthW will not work to
>stop the assassin. Does this play work?

Rank upon Rank is passive. It will never make an Assassin immune to
Ready to His Will.
ICE Digests 77-79 wrote:>[digest 77]
>
>From: Anders Gabrielsson <and...@strindberg.ling.uu.se>
>
>>Ready to His Will is really good against Assassins - as long as
>>Rank Upon Rank isn't in play. Forewarned is Forearmed is pretty
>>good, but also have other, less desirable effects, like making
>>that one attack impossible to cancel. (Though I guess you could
>>cancel the strike.)
>
>Just a minor point. Rank Upon Rank's effect is applied as a
>passive condition. That means it is the first declared effect in
>the first chain of effects after Assassin resolves. Thus, you can
>respond to it with a Ready to His Will.
>
>[digest 78]
>
>From: Martin Toggweiler <mtogg...@compuserve.com>>
>
>>Ichabod, does this mean that *Ready to His Will* works against
>>an *Assassin* even if *Rank Upon Rank* was in play before the
>>Assassin was ever played? If so this really seems weird.
>>
>
>That's exactly what it means. And yes, it is a bit weird. But it's
>either have something a bit weird, or make up a whole new timing
>rule. We went for a bit weird.
>
>>Tell me if the following is correct:
>>
>>With no Rank Upon Rank in play an Assassin is played, then Rank
>>Upon Rank is played, in respose to which Ready to His Will is
>>played; Ready to His Will successfully resolves because the
>>Assassin still only has one strike per attack at this point.
>
>Correct, assuming htis is done after Assassin resolves.
>
>>If, however, in the above example, Ready to His Will is played in
>>response to the Assassin and Rank Upon Rank is played in response
>>to Ready to His Will; RtHW will now fail because the Assassin now
>>has two strikes per attack when RtHW resolves.
>
>Incorrect. Ready to His Will is discarded with no effect, since it
>has no valid target (Assassin has not resolved yet).
>
>[digest 79]
>
>From: Martin Toggweiler <mtogg...@compuserve.com>
>
>>
>>Hmmm... if Ready to His Will had no valid target when announced,
>>wouldn't the announcement be illegal, thus the card could not be
>>played (at that time) in the first place and would be kept in
>>hand instead of discarded?
>
>Technically, yeah.
>
>>Anyway what I meant to ask was suppose an Assassin is announced
>>and resolves ( but the target/attacks not yet carried out); RtHW
>>is now announced, in response Rank Upon Rank is announced. The
>>chain of effects resolves, RtHW fails because the Assassin no
>>longer has one strike per attack. Right?
>
>Now that I think about it, RtHW does not fail. Remember, the
>effect of RUR is done as a passive condition, and is the first
>declared effect in the chain of effects immediately after the
>condition resolves (RUR and a man attack being in play).
>Therefore, Assassin only has one strike when RtHW resolves.

>>With regard to the weird timing rules which allow RtHW to work
>>on an Assassin even if Rank Upon Rank is in play before the
>>Assassin is announced, I really think this should be changed in
>>the rules when METW second edition is released, if not sooner.
>>The intuitive interpretation IMO would be that cards ALREADY IN
>>PLAY like RUR work immediately and continuously when a card it
>>modifies resolves (Assassin) and cannot be preempted by the
>>announcement of a card not yet in play at that point.
>
>Well, of course that's intuitive. And I already said that. But the
>choice is between an intuitive answer, and creating a whole new
>rule which will complicate the timing rules even more. We chose
>not making the rules more complicated. YMMV.

Thanks to Martin for posting this old discussion of Ready to His
Will, Rank upon Rank and Assassin.

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kober
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Re: Ready to his will

Post by kober »

The fact that RtHW is declared in the passive condition's chain-of-effects and thus resolves first makes perfect sense. Thank you!

PS. It is actually covered in the CRF:
Card Errata and Rulings, Ready to His Will wrote: Note that cards like Rank Upon Rank are applied as a passive condition, once an attack of the right type is in play. Therefore you can play and successfully resolve Ready to His Will in response to the declaration of Rank Upon Rank's effect.
Mea Culpa.

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Theo
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Re: Ready to his will

Post by Theo »

CDavis7M wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:36 am
The "one strike" is technically the current as-modified number. But in actuality it is the the normal printed number because the timing rules.
A bit misleading. it is technically and in actuality the current as-modified number. If Hoarmurath of Dir +1 strike effect is declared in response to Ready To His Will, it will resolve first and fizzle Ready.
It is not our part here to take thought only for a season, or for a few lives of Men, or for a passing age of the world.
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CDavis7M
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Re: Ready to his will

Post by CDavis7M »

Theo wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:40 am
CDavis7M wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:36 am
The "one strike" is technically the current as-modified number. But in actuality it is the the normal printed number because the timing rules.
A bit misleading. it is technically and in actuality the current as-modified number. If Hoarmurath of Dir +1 strike effect is declared in response to Ready To His Will, it will resolve first and fizzle Ready.
Nice one!

Except I already said:
CDavis7M wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:39 pm
1. When an effect is played (i.e., a card is played or an ability of a card in play is used) in response to another effect, the subsequently played effect beats the earlier played effect, except:

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Theo
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Re: Ready to his will

Post by Theo »

I didn't say you weren't complete. I said the underlined sentence seemed misleading. :?
It is not our part here to take thought only for a season, or for a few lives of Men, or for a passing age of the world.
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bosquet
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Re: Ready to his will

Post by bosquet »

So, am I right if I take an Assasin as an ally with Ready to his will even if Forearmed is Forewarned is in play?
I understand that the effects of Forearmed are passive... so they don't trigger before RthW. The attack of the Assasin has not been cancelled, it really hasn't occured.

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Konrad Klar
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Re: Ready to his will

Post by Konrad Klar »

bosquet wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:46 am
I understand that the effects of Forearmed are passive... so they don't trigger before RthW
The effects are in force as long Forearmed is in play. They are not triggered.
bosquet wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:46 am
So, am I right if I take an Assasin as an ally with Ready to his will even if Forearmed is Forewarned is in play?
In my opinion no.
The Lidless Eye: Ready to His Will
Resource: Permanent-event

Playable on an Orc, Troll, Giant, Slayer, or Man hazard creature with one strike for each of its attacks. All attacks of the creature are canceled. The creature becomes an ally under the control of any character in the company that now taps. It has a mind of 1, 1 ally Marshaling point, prowess equal to its normal prowess minus 7, and a body equal to 8. Place this card with the creature.
I think that:

All attacks of the creature are canceled. The creature becomes an ally under the control of any character in the company that now taps.

are joint actions. They must be executed simultaneously. Otherwise, if they would be executed in sequence, then after canceling attacks, the creature would be discarded and it could not become an ally.

Inability of canceling the attacks prevents joint action "becomes an ally".
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.

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bosquet
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Re: Ready to his will

Post by bosquet »

But with FiF the attack can not be cancelled...

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Konrad Klar
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Re: Ready to his will

Post by Konrad Klar »

bosquet wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:42 pm
But with FiF the attack can not be cancelled...
Yes. For the reason:

Inability of canceling the attacks prevents joint action "becomes an ally".
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.

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