Council of Elrond

"River" can be played on a NOT moving company with any effect???

I think, "River" can be played, because River is playable on a site.
But if the company isn't moving to this site, it has no effect, right??

But what happen, if another company will move to the same site in the next m/h phase of the same turn?
The not effected "River" played in a m/h phase before reloaded his effect???

I think, if "River" must have any effect in this situation it must be played in the m/h phase of the company wich is moving to that site or not???

Hope someone can help me!

Cheers,
Heiko

[quote=""CRF, Errata (Cards), River"]Card Erratum: Should read "Playable on a site. If a company that has moved to this
site this turn does not tap a ranger, it must do nothing during its site phase." You have
until the beginning of the site phase to tap a ranger, and you may tap the ranger at the
beginning of the site phase without entering the site.
You must tap one ranger for each river played on the site.[/quote]

Grishnakh wrote:I think, "River" can be played, because River is playable on a site.
But if the company isn't moving to this site, it has no effect, right??

Can be played and that company will not be affected by the River.

Grishnakh wrote:But what happen, if another company will move to the same site in the next m/h phase of the same turn?
The not effected "River" played in a m/h phase before reloaded his effect???

Text of River does not specify the affected company in other way than " a company that has moved to this
site this turn". So I do not see a reason for which it could not be a company other than that against which the River has been played.
Also I do not see a reason for which the River would not affect a companies that has already moved to the site this turn (before the River has been played).

There is a common belief/practice that affected are only companies that stopped at site on which a River has been played. But it is not supported by text of the card. Even if a company had another M/H phase it is affected if it has moved to this site this turn.

Konrad Klar wrote:There is a common belief/practice that affected are only companies that stopped at site on which a River has been played. But it is not supported by text of the card. Even if a company had another M/H phase it is affected if it has moved to this site this turn.

However, the latest official ruling agrees with the common belief, unless I've missed something.

CoE 4 wrote:Because the River is played on a site, it won't affect your opponent's company if they end up
stopping at a site other than the one you played the River on.

My guess is because you aren't at the site until the site phase, so you haven't moved to it. Never mind Master of Esgaroth. See my sig for further details.

Related problem: no duration is indicated on River. How long does it last?

MELE Rules wrote:Short-event - A short-event's effects are implemented; then, it is discarded. The effects of some short-events last for a specific period as stated on its card (e.g., some say: "until the end of the turn").

It isn't until the end of the turn, or it would say that.

Is it instant? Eternal?

Bandobras Took wrote:It isn't until the end of the turn, or it would say that.

I do not know.

Yet another related problem:

CRF, Rulings by Term, Site wrote:A permanent-event played on a site affects only the copy of the site it is played on,
unless otherwise specified. A permanent-event not played on a site affects all versions
of affected sites.

And no word about short-events, and about potential other effects that could affect a site.
Also I do not know whether if a site is discarded an effect played on him disappears or whether is still in force.
I did not found yet a situation that would prove, or disprove one of possibilities.

P.S.
It is almost off-topic but anyway related: is stated anywhere, how long last a definition of automatic-attack defined by creature?