Council of Elrond

Maybe this is a stupid question, but I'm not 100% certain about this one: This card is a Hero Resource. Will it affect a minion player if the opponent plays it?

If by "Forewarned means Forearmed" you mean "Forewarned Is Forearmed":

It does not affect minion players.
It does not affect hero players too.
It affects hazards, and attacks from affected hazards, non-minion sites, and attacks at affected sites.

Konrad Klar wrote:If by "Forewarned means Forearmed" you mean "Forewarned Is Forearmed":

It does not affect minion players.
It does not affect hero players too.
It affects hazards, and attacks from affected hazards, non-minion sites, and attacks at affected sites.

I was writting without the card on my sight, so "Forewarned means Forearmed" absolutely means "Forewarned Is Forearmed"

The answer I was looking for is It affects hazards, and attacks from affected hazards, non-minion sites, and attacks at affected sites, so I understand that, as minion player, an Assasin played against one of my companies will still be reduced to only one attack, but if I'm trying to enter an Under-deeps site (minion or Balrog alignment), I'll still have to face all auto attacks there. Correct?

If the Under-Deeps site is minion version then it will not be "reduced to having one automatic-attack of the hazard player's choice".

By rule:

CRF, Rulings by Term, Site wrote:Hero events cannot target or affect minion sites, and vice versa. News of the Shire is
an exception.

Is targeting/affecting automatic attacks at a site the same as targeting/affecting the site?

No. It is not the same.

Thanks; was trying to work out some logic in my mind.

FOREWARNED IS FOREARMED ‐ Permanent‐event (C)
Any non‐Dragon Lair site with more than one automatic‐attack is reduced to having one automatic‐attack of the hazard playerʹs choice. Any creature or other hazard with more than one attack is reduced to one attack of the hazard playerʹs choice. Discard when such an isolated attack is defeated. Cannot be duplicated.

If you defeat a hazard creature affected by this card (ie. Assassin, Slayer), do you receive the 2 kill MPs? I know that if any single attack is cancelled, you don't receive kill points. In this case, the additional attacks are reduced, not cancelled. Thanks

Forewarned is Forearmed wrote:[...]Discard when such an isolated attack is defeated.[...]

the Jabberwock wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:43 pm In this case, the additional attacks are reduced, not cancelled.

Just that.
Further it only depends on whether a player is able to receive MP for defeating creatures without asterisk.

Right, but assuming the player can receive the MPs (ie. Hero company facing an Assassin), the player would get the 2 MPs for only defeating the single attack.

Just wanted to confirm. Thanks

If a creature does not have a more (for any reasons), there is nothing more to face (and bother about).
Similarly, if a number of strikes of an attack has been reduced, there is no need (nor possibility) to deal with not existing now strikes.

If to compare reduction of strikes with reduction of attacks:
Rules forbid a changing a number of strikes once they assigned. There is no comparable rule that would regulate a reducing of a number of attacks.
It is no defined what happens when Forewarned is Forearmed is played after facing non-last attack from creature with multiple attacks.
Does a reduction happen at all? Is the reduction limited to attacks not ended yet?

Maybe the problem has been overlooked by ICE, because unlike a changing a number a strikes, an effects that allow changing a number of attacks are rare (one case that I know - just Forewarned is Forearmed).

I would look at the number of attacks a creature currently has.

After facing the first attack from an Assassin, it has two attacks left. Forewarned would still affect it.

After facing two attacks from an Assassin, it has only one attack left. Forewarned would not affect it if played at that time.

Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:20 am It is no defined what happens when Forewarned is Forearmed is played after facing non-last attack from creature with multiple attacks.
Does a reduction happen at all? Is the reduction limited to attacks not ended yet?

Maybe the problem has been overlooked by ICE, because unlike a changing a number a strikes, an effects that allow changing a number of attacks are rare (one case that I know - just Forewarned is Forearmed).

ICE Rules Digest 516 wrote:<<Can you play forwarded is forarmed after taking the first attack of an
assassin?>>

No. Here is a ruling on Forewarned Is Forearmed. May not be played after
any strike of attacks it affects are assigned.

It's worth nothing that Van backtracked but never provided an update. It's also worth noting that Ichabod did the exact same thing. However, simply by reading the card text it will be clear that the reduction effect of Forewarned is Forearmed does not work when played after the first attack of the creature because the reduction is dependent on the Hazard Player's choice and they will obviously not choose the already defeated attack.

"Any creature or other hazard with more than one attack is reduced to one attack of the hazard player's choice (this attack cannot be canceled)."

Here is the situation, the Resource Player is trying to play Forewarned if Forearmed after defeating the first attack so that they can receive the MP. But the Hazard Player will definitely not choose for the creature to be reduced to the defeated attack, they will choose one of the attacks that has not yet been faced. But in that case the creature can not be "reduced to one attack" because it will be reduced to at least 2 attacks, the one that was faced and the one chosen by the Hazard Player. The effect of Forewarned is Forearmed does not work in this situation. But it can still be played in the play area.

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From: ich...@spamblock.cstone.net (Craig Ichabod O'Brien)
Subject: [MECCG] Rules Digest 117
Date: 1998/08/07
> - Can i play "Forewarned is forearmed" in response to a
Slayer/Assasin/Nameles
>thing/etc... ?
Yes.
> - If so, can i play it between it's attacks ?
Well, I'm not sure there is time between attacks to play the card, but
you could play it before the strikes of the second attack are declared.

From: ich...@spamblock.cstone.net (Craig Ichabod O'Brien)
Subject: [MECCG] Rules Digest 118
Date: 1998/08/10
>So I presume if Forewarned is Forearmed is
>played after the first Assassin attack, that the remaining two attacks are
>removed (or would only one of the remaining attacks be removed and the
>other become uncancellable? ) and if the first attack was defeated the
>Assassin would go into the defender's MP pile (if Hero/FW), right?
I'm going to hold off on answering this question. There are issues
coming up here that I need to discuss with the series editor.

From: Gnome <7633...@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: [MECCG] Rules Digest #510
Date: 1998/09/30
>From: Eric Silverman <sil...@saber.towson.edu>
>Subject: VAN: Assassin question
>If I want to play forewarned is forearmed VS an assassin do I have to play
>it before the strikes are assigned or can I wait until he has assigned the
>strikes?
Assassin is a special case in a lot of ways, however, you would
play Forewarned bofore the target is chosen. Since Forewarned
affects the attack, not the strike, it must be played prior to
the assignment of strikes.

>>From: Eric Silverman <sil...@saber.towson.edu>
>>Subject: VAN: Assassin question
>>
>>If I want to play forewarned is forearmed VS an assassin do I have to play
>>it before the strikes are assigned or can I wait until he has assigned the
>>strikes?
>
>Assassin is a special case in a lot of ways, however, you would
>play Forewarned bofore the target is chosen. Since Forewarned
>affects the attack, not the strike, it must be played prior to
>the assignment of strikes.
>////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>
>What rule would stop *Forewarned is Forearmed* from being played after
>the first Assassin attack is resolved, but before the strike of the second
>attack is formally "assigned", thus stopping the second and third attacks
>by reducing them away since one had already been faced?
>
>Or would FiF not "remember" the first attack (since it was not yet in play)
>and just reduce the remaining two attacks to one?
Martin, Assassin is such an odd case that I want to do some research before
answering this one. Hang on to that thought.