Meaning of moving during organizations phase

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Jose-san
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Meaning of moving during organizations phase

Post by Jose-san »

HIDDEN WAYS
Ranger only. Playable during the organization phase on an untapped ranger whose company is moving. Tap the ranger. No
hazard creatures may be keyed by type to Wilderness against the rangerʹs company this turn.
HIDE IN DARK PLACES
Scout only. Playable during the organization phase on a scout whose company is not moving. All hazard creature attacks
against the scoutʹs company this turn are canceled.
AFAIK companies never move during the organization phase. I guess "is moving" means "is going to move", or "has declared movement".
MELE Rulebook
A company commits to moving by playing a new site card (face down) during its organization phase.
Could you play Hide in Dark Places on a company before declaring it is moving? I guess Hide in Dark Places should be played only at the end of the organization phase.

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Shapeshifter
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Re: Meaning of moving during organizations phase

Post by Shapeshifter »

Underlines mine.

I.C.E. seemed to be not clear at all about what a "moving company" is:
The glossary in the MELE rulesbook wrote:Moving Company: A company in the process of moving between a site of origin and new site. A company is moving during its movement/hazard phase from the time it reveals its new site until the site of origin is removed.
According to this entry a company is not considered a "moving company" during the organization phase. How can cards like Hidden Ways be played during the m/h-phase then?
However:
MELE, Starter Rules, 6. Movement wrote:A company commits to moving by playing a new site card (face down) during its organization phase.
MELE, Standard Rules, 6. Movement, Moving companies to the same non-darkhaven site wrote:During the organization phase, two or more companies may move to the same non-Darkhaven site,
And then there is this:
CRF, Organization phase, Choosing a new site wrote:Effects that are played during the organization phase, and depend on the site or site path of a moving company, create an effect which is not declared until the new site is revealed. If the site or site path is not of the appropriate type when the effect resolves, the resource has no effect. If the company has multiple movement/hazard phases on the same turn, the card applies separately to each phase, having an effect only if the correct conditions are met.
Now my interpretation:
Cards that are playable during the orga-phase on a company that is either moving (e.g. Hiden Ways) or not-moving (e.g. Hide in Dark Places) may be played at any time during the orga-phase if the corresponding company already commited to moving / not moving by placing a new site card face down / declaring that it will not move. The best thing in my eyes would be, however, that such cards were playable at the end of the orga-phase only.

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Mordakai
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Re: Meaning of moving during organizations phase

Post by Mordakai »

Not being a native english speaker I could be wrong, but the use of gerund here (moving) could mean future tense, and not present continuous tense.

Example:

I'm moving my arm -> Right now i'm performing the action of displacing my arm from one place to other.

I'm moving tomorrow -> I'll change my residence tomorrow

However, totally agree that the real verbal form used in these cases should have been "commited to move" or "commited not to move", instead of gerunds.

My 2 cents
C'mon, not the Elves of Lindon AGAIN...

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Konrad Klar
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Re: Meaning of moving during organizations phase

Post by Konrad Klar »

A company may decide whether it will move or not at almost any moment of organization phase.
At the end of organization phase it is definitively known whether a company will move, or not (hence "almost").

As it has been noticed a terms "moving"/"not moving" are used inconsistently. A company is always in one of states - "moving" or "not moving".
Additionally in organization phase "moving" may mean "that decided to move", "not moving" may mean "that decided to not move".

It may be easily deduced that "moving company" as active condition of card playable only in organization phase refers to "company that decided to move" and not to the state of company.
"Not moving company" in organization phase may mean "company that decided to not move", or it may mean any company - because each is in "not moving" state (even a company "that [already] decided to move").

The check for "not moving" state in organization phase does not make a sense (at least as an active condition*), as well as explicit check for existence of a company. Both are guaranteed to be always positive.

Conclusion:
"is not moving" in text of Hide in Dark Places is either meaningless, or it means that Hide in Dark Places may be played only on company that decided to not move.
In second case it is not necessary to demand a playing of the card only at the end of phase (because it would not remove actual problem which is ambiguous use of term "not moving"). Such demand is also invalid (unless someone wants unrelated errata), because at the end of phase only explicitly allowed actions may be declared** .

P.S.
Probably it was not easy just to write "will not move", instead "is not moving" before sending to print. :(

*) in result of effects of some cards a company may be in state "moving" also outside of M/H phase. But this state lasts momentarily; it is not possible to declare anything during this (infinitely short) period. Some "discard" actions have "moving company" as their passive condition. "Discard" actions (caused by passive condition) happen immediately, not in chain of effects, so they may work.

**) it is debatable whether such action may be responded by other, not explicitly allowed, actions.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.

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the JabberwocK
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Re: Meaning of moving during organizations phase

Post by the JabberwocK »

Common sense suggests I.C.E. should have printed "will be moving" or "will not be moving."

If not, then one card is useless and the other card is broken.

If this language is causing actual debate during gameplay, I suggest it be added to the list of rules to be reviewed for upcoming errata.

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