New to the game and have some questions.
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Okay, then just so I'm clear, in a less specific example, say I am traveling from Wellinghall to Lorien, a site path of Fangorn and Wold & Foothills (two wildernesses), and my opponent tries to play a Cave Drake on me (which requires two wildernesses). May I use The Evenstar or any other such resource event as a response to change one of those wildernesses into a borderland, which would then negate the playability of the Cave Drake and effectively cancel the hazard? My understanding of the rules is that any hazard which initiates strikes also starts a chain of effects, and I would think that means if a card is played in response which alters something like a region, it would resolve before the hazard and then effect its playability (depending)...
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I think I still have it wrong, but the explanation doesn't quite make sense to me.
- Konrad Klar
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In response to declaration of Cave-Drake you may play The Evenstar or declare using of any other effect that changes a company's site path.
If at resolution of Cave-Drake there will not be in company's site path, then the Cave-Drake will not resolve (please note, that it is not the same as canceling a Cave-Drake).
First declared action is the last to resolve in chain of effects (obviously)...
If at resolution of Cave-Drake there will not be in company's site path, then the Cave-Drake will not resolve (please note, that it is not the same as canceling a Cave-Drake).
Any action that create an immediate attack may not be declared by player in response to other action.DuncanNeeds2Shave wrote: ↑Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:55 pm My understanding of the rules is that any hazard which initiates strikes also starts a chain of effects, and I would think that means if a card is played in response which alters something like a region, it would resolve before the hazard and then effect its playability (depending)...
First declared action is the last to resolve in chain of effects (obviously)...
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
To go back to the Withered Heath example, if the only Wilderness you are moving through is Withered Heath and your opponent keys to Wilderness, then you can change the Withered Heath Wilderness to prevent Wargs from resolving. The Wargs cannot be rekeyed to the Borderland.
But to Konrad's point, the Wargs will resolve if there is still another Wilderness in the company's site path.
But to Konrad's point, the Wargs will resolve if there is still another Wilderness in the company's site path.
One [online community] with hammer and chisel might mar more than they make...
All players are welcome at Meduseld! https://theo-donly.github.io/MECCG/
All players are welcome at Meduseld! https://theo-donly.github.io/MECCG/
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...So then, the opponent must specify what the hazard is keyed to (and cannot rekey it), just not by name. He must name a region type (wilderness), but not specifically which wilderness.
1. Gates of Morning and Star of High Hope in play. Doors of Night comes into play to cancel, resource player plays another Gates of Morning in response to the Doors of Night. What is the ultimate result?
And this stirred up quite a debate...
2. If Doors of Night is in play, and after that I play Sun, and then I play Crown of Flowers (on its own, without a resource with it), may I then play Echo of All Joy with Crown of Flowers, with Sun to keep Sun in play indefinitely? (Crown of Flowers provides Gates of Morning effect for Echo of All Joy > Echo of All Joy creates effect to keep Sun in play)
1. Gates of Morning and Star of High Hope in play. Doors of Night comes into play to cancel, resource player plays another Gates of Morning in response to the Doors of Night. What is the ultimate result?
And this stirred up quite a debate...
2. If Doors of Night is in play, and after that I play Sun, and then I play Crown of Flowers (on its own, without a resource with it), may I then play Echo of All Joy with Crown of Flowers, with Sun to keep Sun in play indefinitely? (Crown of Flowers provides Gates of Morning effect for Echo of All Joy > Echo of All Joy creates effect to keep Sun in play)
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This is not possible.DuncanNeeds2Shave wrote: ↑Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:16 am 1. Gates of Morning and Star of High Hope in play. Doors of Night comes into play to cancel, resource player plays another Gates of Morning in response to the Doors of Night. What is the ultimate result?
Second copy of Gates of Morning can be played if a copy already in play is targeted to discard.
Doors of Night does not target anything. Twilight could target the Gates of Morning.
Anyway, if for any reason a multiple copies of Gates of Morning would be in play, all would be discarded at moment when Doors of Night card resolves.
Yes.DuncanNeeds2Shave wrote: ↑Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:16 am 2. If Doors of Night is in play, and after that I play Sun, and then I play Crown of Flowers (on its own, without a resource with it), may I then play Echo of All Joy with Crown of Flowers, with Sun to keep Sun in play indefinitely? (Crown of Flowers provides Gates of Morning effect for Echo of All Joy > Echo of All Joy creates effect to keep Sun in play)
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
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Okay, I forgot you can only play the second copy of Gates of Morning if it was targeted to cancel...
But how about this: Star of High Hope is in play (Gates of Morning is NOT in play). My opponent plays Doors of Night, and I play Gates of Morning as a Response. Would playing Gates of Morning be a wasted play? Wouldn't Gates of Morning resolve first, then Doors of Night which would cancel the Gates of Morning AND Star of High Hope? Or does it work like Twilight where it can cancel in the same chain of effects?
And one more...
If I am traveling with a company of two, Elrond and Elrohir, my hazard limit is two. Gates of Morning is in play. My opponent plays one hazard against me, and then for the second hazard he places a card on guard at my destination site (second hazard). I respond by using Many Turns and Doublings to reduce my hazard limit to one. What happens to the on guard hazard? Discarded or back to hand? Or does playing an on-guard card not start a chain of effects and therefore I can't play Many Turns and Doublings in such a way? Just want clarity.
Thanks for all the recent help!
But how about this: Star of High Hope is in play (Gates of Morning is NOT in play). My opponent plays Doors of Night, and I play Gates of Morning as a Response. Would playing Gates of Morning be a wasted play? Wouldn't Gates of Morning resolve first, then Doors of Night which would cancel the Gates of Morning AND Star of High Hope? Or does it work like Twilight where it can cancel in the same chain of effects?
And one more...
If I am traveling with a company of two, Elrond and Elrohir, my hazard limit is two. Gates of Morning is in play. My opponent plays one hazard against me, and then for the second hazard he places a card on guard at my destination site (second hazard). I respond by using Many Turns and Doublings to reduce my hazard limit to one. What happens to the on guard hazard? Discarded or back to hand? Or does playing an on-guard card not start a chain of effects and therefore I can't play Many Turns and Doublings in such a way? Just want clarity.
Thanks for all the recent help!
- Konrad Klar
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Yes, it would be a wasted play.DuncanNeeds2Shave wrote: ↑Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:28 pm But how about this: Star of High Hope is in play (Gates of Morning is NOT in play). My opponent plays Doors of Night, and I play Gates of Morning as a Response. Would playing Gates of Morning be a wasted play?
Doors of Night would discard the Gates of Morning AND Star of High Hope.DuncanNeeds2Shave wrote: ↑Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:28 pm Wouldn't Gates of Morning resolve first, then Doors of Night which would cancel the Gates of Morning AND Star of High Hope?
No.DuncanNeeds2Shave wrote: ↑Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:28 pm Or does it work like Twilight where it can cancel in the same chain of effects?
Assuming that the on-guard was placed in second chain of effects (not in response to first hazard), the on-guard card is returned to hand.DuncanNeeds2Shave wrote: ↑Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:28 pm If I am traveling with a company of two, Elrond and Elrohir, my hazard limit is two. Gates of Morning is in play. My opponent plays one hazard against me, and then for the second hazard he places a card on guard at my destination site (second hazard). I respond by using Many Turns and Doublings to reduce my hazard limit to one. What happens to the on guard hazard?
Not discarded, because it was not played. Declared (and unable to resolve due to lack of HL) was the action of placing the on-guard card.
Declaration of placing of on-guard card can start a chain of effect. Many Turns and Doublings may be played in response.DuncanNeeds2Shave wrote: ↑Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:28 pm Or does playing an on-guard card not start a chain of effects and therefore I can't play Many Turns and Doublings in such a way?
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
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I say NO!!!DuncanNeeds2Shave wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:16 am
2. If Doors of Night is in play, and after that I play Sun, and then I play Crown of Flowers (on its own, without a resource with it), may I then play Echo of All Joy with Crown of Flowers, with Sun to keep Sun in play indefinitely? (Crown of Flowers provides Gates of Morning effect for Echo of All Joy > Echo of All Joy creates effect to keep Sun in play)
Yes.
Echo of all you is not playable while Doors is in play, so that does not work, so again give the card text on questions to make sure we are all on the same pagePlay on a resource long-event if Doors of Night is not in play. The long-event is not discarded as normal during a long-event phase. Discard Echo of All Joy and target long-event when any play deck is exhausted or when Doors of Night comes into play.
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Well now Vastor Peredhil, I have two opposing responses for the question about Doors of Night, Crown of Flowers, and Echo of All Joy. Will a third party step in to explain which answer is correct?
And sorry. I assumed the card text would be understood.
And sorry. I assumed the card text would be understood.
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honestly dude, this is not about opinions, read the Text and your example they are not possible due to EoaJ not being able to be in play while Doors is in play, that has nothing to do with the rest of the example, and sorry , Konrad tends to not know all card texts!
- Konrad Klar
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So sorry, but I'm maintaining my opinion.
Resource that cannot be played when Doors of Night is in play, may be played with Crown of Flowers even if Doors of Night is in play globally.
I think that it is main application of the Crown of Flowers.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
- Konrad Klar
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I know that in some sources the phrase is given as:
"The resource is considered to be in play as though Gates of Morning were in play and Doors of Night were not."
that is incorrect and it may be the source of confusion.
"The resource is considered to be in play as though Gates of Morning were in play and Doors of Night were not."
that is incorrect and it may be the source of confusion.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
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okay, we might need an in depth mothertungue interpretation, I am not 100% sure myself anymore so I say maybe now,
still we should agree to post all cards texts always, as memory never serves
still we should agree to post all cards texts always, as memory never serves
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I'm calling on Bandobras Took and the Jabberwock to chime in.