Council of Elrond

Prophet of Doom wrote:Pallando specific. Playable if you are Pallando and have at least 12 stage points and 5 factions in play. Pallando need not be at the appropriate site when making an influence attempt on an opponent's resource or character. Such an influence check is modified by half (rounded up) of Pallando's unused general influence (to a maximum of 10) instead of his unused direct influence. Subtract from the attempt the number of regions between Pallando's site and the site where the influence attempt would normally be made. Discard if you have fewer than 5 factions in play. Cannot be duplicated.

What if Pallando is at under-deeps site?
What if the opponents resource is in company at under-deeps site?
Does it mean that an attempt he makes is not modified by "the number of regions between Pallando's site and the site where the influence attempt would normally be made" because the number may not be calculated?

What if Pallando is not at under-deeps site, but makes attempt against opponent's faction which is playable both at under-deeps site and at non-under-deeps site (e.g. Snaga-Hai)?
May its controlling player state that he chooses the under-deeps site as "the site where the influence attempt would normally be made"?

If the number may not be calculated, there is no modification.

If a faction has multiple sites where it may be influenced, the closest one should be used, so far as I know.

I would think that the influencing player would get to declare where they would normally make the influence attempt. It is not up to the player controlling the faction to tell the influencing player where the influencer would normally make the influence attempt. Nor should the influencing player be arbitrarily restricted to considering the nearest site as their normal one.

Bandobras Took wrote: ↑Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:13 am If the number may not be calculated, there is no modification.

My opinion is rather that the resulting "difference" (the result of subtraction) itself becomes undefined. This difference is what is used during the comparison for a successful influence check, and being undefined makes it impossible to ever satisfy that check.

Theo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:32 am This difference is what is used during the comparison for a successful influence check, and being undefined makes it impossible to ever satisfy that check.

"the number of regions between Pallando's site and the site where the influence attempt would normally be made" is a modifier to influence check, it is not value being compared to other.

BTW. Even if an influencing character is not in play at resolution of an influencing attempt, the attempt may be proceeded anyway. The character's free DI is just not added to influence check (which is basically a dice roll).

Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:11 am

Theo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:32 am This difference is what is used during the comparison for a successful influence check, and being undefined makes it impossible to ever satisfy that check.

"the number of regions between Pallando's site and the site where the influence attempt would normally be made" is a modifier to influence check, it is not value being compared to other.

I was referencing the lingo: "minuend" - "subtrahend" = "difference"

In this case, "the number of regions between Pallando's site and the site where the influence attempt would normally be made" is the subtrahend. The difference is what Prophet of Doom is using in the comparison, which is undefined when the subtrahend is undefined.

Theo wrote: ↑Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:37 pm The difference is what Prophet of Doom is using in the comparison, which is undefined when the subtrahend is undefined.

It is defined. He uses a result of influence check.
Undefined is a modifier to the influence check.

The result of the subtraction is what is used for the influence check comparison for this card. Otherwise, what purpose would the card's instructions to perform a subtraction serve?

I think that you are right.
The modifier is not optional [as opposed to e.g. "The influence check is modified by any of the faction's applicable modifications (as given on the faction's card)" where optional modifier is preceded by word "any"].
Therefore if the modifier cannot be calculated, the net result cannot be calculated too.

In case of Hour of Need ICE has solved problem by simple cut.

CRF, Errata (Cards), Hour of Need wrote:May not be played in the Under-deeps.

Fallen Wizard player may not include Hour of Need in deck, but problem may potentially reappear if some hero faction will become playable at under-deeps site (due to hypothetical effect, or due to introducing a hero faction normally playable at under-deeps site).

Anyway I think that currently there is a situation when the impossible_to_be_calculated component does not count.
The situation is when Webs of Fear and Treachery is in play.