Saw Further and Deeper

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the Jabberwock
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Saw Further and Deeper

Post by the Jabberwock » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:37 am

SAW FURTHER AND DEEPER ‐ Permanent‐event (U)
Playable only if your Wizard is not revealed. Your general influence is increased by 5. Your Wizard may only be brought into play at his home site. Discard when you bring your Wizard into play. Cannot be duplicated by a given player.

I tried to look up information on "Revealing" one's Wizard. I found this from The Wizard's rulebook:
Once you decide to reveal your Wizard, you may still use your pool
of general influence points; but, in addition, your Wizard acts as a
character (a very powerful one). While revealing your Wizard is an
advantage, it also carries with it the danger of losing the game by
losing your Wizard to death or corruption.
After being revealed, a Wizard operates as a character and thus may
use his direct influence just like any other character.

It didn't really answer my question, which is:

Is "revealed" synonymous with "in play"?

My guess is that the answer is NO, and that "revealing" is an event that generally happens only once per game when you play your Avatar for the first time.
I did not find a clear statement in the rules that supports this, however, so I'm seeking confirmation. I'm sure I missed something obvious. :?

Specifically: if I have already "revealed" my Wizard, but he has been eliminated or removed from play via another means am I permitted to play Saw Further and Deeper?

Sacrifice of Form goes so far as to say the Wizard becomes "unrevealed" and makes it sound like that is synonymous with him being discarded. It would appear that Saw Further and Deeper can legally be played after your wizard is "unrevealed."

So is there an argument to be made that an eliminated Wizard is also "unrevealed"? The standard rules state you lose the game when this happens, but most people play using the -5 MP convention, and thus it would be advantageous to get Saw Further and Deeper into play after having your Wizard eliminated (if this is a legal play).

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Bandobras Took
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Re: Saw Further and Deeper

Post by Bandobras Took » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:54 am

I believe that since it says "is not revealed" instead of "has not been revealed," it checks for the current presence/absence of your wizard.

The Balrog rules summary indirectly indicates that revealing one's avatar is a special kind of character play, so "is not in play" is a reasonable way to read "is not revealed."

I believe that Unique characters that have been eliminated are considered to be in play only for purposes of Uniqueness.
Remember, NetRep rulings are official. This does not necessarily mean they are correct.

You probably aren't playing Fallen Wizards correctly. This prompted the backlash erratum that I will link to as soon as I notice it is officially posted. :)

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