Bow of Alatar vs. Attacker chooses defending characters

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Moriquendi
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Bow of Alatar vs. Attacker chooses defending characters

Post by Moriquendi » Mon May 07, 2018 5:13 pm

Bringing this topic back up -

Bow of Alatar:
BOW OF ALATAR ‐ Permanent‐event (R)
[SP: 2; CP: 1]
Unique. Alatar specific. Place this card on Alatar if he is in play. If on Alatar, you may tap Bow of Alatar to allow him to face a strike from an attack against his company regardless of the attackʹs normal capabilities and his status. If such a strike fails, the attackʹs body is reduced by 1.
in contrast to FW Alatar's Teleport Ability:
ALATAR ‐ Warrior/Scout/Ranger/Sage Fallen‐wizard (C)
[GI: 17; DI: 10; P/B: 7/9; Home Site: Any non‐ʺDragonʹs lairʺ Ruins & Lairs in a Wilderness] Unique. Hazards your companies defeat (even with *) are worth full kill marshalling points. If you have more than 7 stage points, all detainment attacks against your companies attack normally instead. If at one of his Wizardhavens when a hazard creature attacks one of your companies, he may immediately join that company. Alatar must face a strike from the creature (in all cases). Following all of the creatureʹs attacks, Alatar must tap (if untapped) and make a corruption check.
So the discussion was in regards to when the Bow may be tapped and when Alatar may choose to jump in to face a strike in the attack sequence.

In the case of Alatar's teleport, the text is very specific in stating when the ability must be used. The bow, however, does not contain this same language.

Example 1 (Bow may be tapped any time):

Opponent plays Ambusher and selects Alatar and Ioreth as targets. Alatar faces his strike, taps, defeats it, then taps the bow to allow him to face a strike regardless of the attackʹs normal capabilities and his status. Alatar faces a second strike, tapped.


Example 2 (Bow must be tapped when attack is announced):


Opponent plays Ambusher. Alatar taps bow. Opponent chooses Gimli and Ioreth as targets.

* Lets pause here for a second *

Who faces the first strike? Does the Opponent choose or does the Defender choose? Keep in mind the text on the Bow does not require Alatar to face a strike, it allows him to face a strike. Again, timing of this ability is not specified.

*continue...*

Scenario A - Alatar faces the first strike, then the opponent chooses either Gimli or Ioreth to face the 2nd strike.

Scenario B - Gimli faces the first strike, then Alatar uses the Bow's ability to face the 2nd strike.

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Konrad Klar
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Re: Bow of Alatar vs. Attacker chooses defending characters

Post by Konrad Klar » Mon May 07, 2018 8:11 pm

Moriquendi wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 5:13 pm
Who faces the first strike? Does the Opponent choose or does the Defender choose? Keep in mind the text on the Bow does not require Alatar to face a strike, it allows him to face a strike. Again, timing of this ability is not specified.
By default a defender chooses an order of resolving strikes, no matter who chooses defending characters.
Cards like Half an Eye Open may change it.

Text of Bow of Alatar implies that an attack must be faced to tap the card. So both Example 1 and Example 2 are invalid.
Ambusher must resolve in the chains of effects in which it was declared. Until Ambusher is resolved an effects that change an order of assigning a strikes cannot be declared.
Moriquendi wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 5:13 pm
*continue...*
Both Scenario A and Scenario B are invalid.
All strikes (except exceed strikes) must be assigned before any strike will be resolved.
Effect of Bow of Alatar has higher priority than normal capabilities of an attack.
So defender may choose to assign a one strike to Alatar. Then attacker assigns a remaining strikes. Then the strikes are resolved in order chosen by defender.
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Moriquendi
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Re: Bow of Alatar vs. Attacker chooses defending characters

Post by Moriquendi » Mon May 07, 2018 8:48 pm

So... how would that work vs. an Assassin or Slayer? The Opponent would have to choose Alatar to face all the attacks or just the first since the bow only allows for one strike of an attack?

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Konrad Klar
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Re: Bow of Alatar vs. Attacker chooses defending characters

Post by Konrad Klar » Mon May 07, 2018 9:41 pm

For next attacks of Assassin or Slayer a strike is being assigned to the same character to which the strike from first attack was assigned.
Besides a procedure of assigning a strikes is the same.

EDIT:
"Otherwise" replaced by "Besides" in last sentence.
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Re: Bow of Alatar vs. Attacker chooses defending characters

Post by Theo » Mon May 07, 2018 11:05 pm

[revised opinion:]

An alternative argument could be made that the bow skips assignment altogether; Alatar faces a strike even though it was never assigned to him. The longer I consider it, the more I believe this; why use "to face" instead of "to be assigned" unless to differentiate this? So Alatar's player may tap the bow to face the strike sequence for a strike assigned to another character when that strike sequence is the next to resolve.
MELE wrote:Example: Lagduf is untapped with a prowess of 5 and a body of 8. He is facing a strike from a Huorn (only has one strike) with a prowess of 10 and a body of “-.” Lagduf could decide not to tap against the strike; in which case his prowess would only be 2 (his normal prowess of 5, minus 3 for not tapping) against this strike. However, Lagduf decides to tap to face the strike.
MELE wrote:... There are 5 strikes and 5 characters, so each character will face one strike (no decisions on strike allocation can be made). Bróin elects to face his strike first.
These Examples involve language about facing a strike separate from assignment. They corroborates that the facing of the strike occurs during the strike sequence, not during assignment (although I could find no explicit rules that speak to this).

So Examples 1 and 2 in OP are both possible, where Alatar's player would be getting to choose which strike assigned to another character will instead be faced by Alatar (more like Scenario B in Example 2)
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Re: Bow of Alatar vs. Attacker chooses defending characters

Post by Konrad Klar » Tue May 08, 2018 5:27 am

"regardless of the attackʹs normal capabilities and his status"
is the key in may opinion.
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