Glove of Radagast

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the JabberwocK
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In CoE Digest 105 the following is stated:
Does the text of the Glove override normal playability requirements?
Basically can Radagast play an ally at any site, regardless of the sites
status (tapped or untapped) or does the site need to be untapped?

*** Since, based on the text of Glove of Radagast, the ally must be
played, other playability requirements still apply. Therefore, the site
must be untapped.
Often, if a card is allowed to be brought into play
without actually being "played", the term "placed" is used.
(bold mine)

All of the hero and minion non-unique 1 mind allies that I am aware of are playable at both tapped and untapped sites.

So does the untapped site allowance not transfer over using the Glove of Radagast to a site which the ally would normally not be playable at? (e.g. Noble Hound using the Glove could be played at a tapped Bree but not at a tapped Barrow-Downs. Is this correct?

Separately, the phrase "a copy of which he does not already control" only applies if Radagast himself currently controls the same titled ally. It is perfectly okay to have a Noble Hound in his company and play a second using the Glove, so long as the one already in play isn't under Radagast himself. Correct?
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Bandobras Took
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Any non-unique ally with 1 mind (a copy of which he does not already control) is considered playable with Radagast at his site. This ally may be taken from your discard pile or hand.
Glove adds an alternate playability to an ally. You may play an ally using Glove or the ally's playability, but you may not combine the two.
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Theo
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the Jabberwock wrote: Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:57 pm Separately, the phrase "a copy of which he does not already control" only applies if Radagast himself currently controls the same titled ally. It is perfectly okay to have a Noble Hound in his company and play a second using the Glove, so long as the one already in play isn't under Radagast himself. Correct?
Correct.
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Konrad Klar
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So if Radagast's company is at site, any ally with 1 mind (not already controlled by Radagast) is considered playable there. If other company moves to the site, and such ally is placed with Come at Need, the ally will attack the company (if Come at Need has been played by opponent, of course).
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CDavis7M
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Bandobras Took wrote: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:37 pm
Any non-unique ally with 1 mind (a copy of which he does not already control) is considered playable with Radagast at his site. This ally may be taken from your discard pile or hand.
Glove adds an alternate playability to an ally. You may play an ally using Glove or the ally's playability, but you may not combine the two.
This statement is assuming that the phrase "tapped or untapped" in Noble Hound's "Playable at any tapped or untapped border-hold" describes the site-based playability requirements and not another ally playability requirement. I disagree and so did the ICE Netrep. The particular site is just one of many playability requirements and the site being untapped is a separate playability requirement.

Glove of Radagast can be used to play an ally at a tapped site if the ally's card text indicates that it is playable at tapped sites.
10 · PLAYING AND DRAWING CARDS wrote:
METW wrote:Certain resource cards may only be played if specific required conditions exist.
Playing a faction card, ally card, information card, or item card (unless stated otherwise on the card) requires an untapped character and an untapped site. In addition, the company must face any automatic-attacks located at the same site before such a card can be played.

BRINGING AN ALLY INTO PLAY
You can automatically bring an ally into play by tapping one of your characters. The character must be at the site indicated on the ally’s card.
MELE wrote:Certain resource cards may only be played if specific required conditions exist. A faction card, ally card, or item card must be played during your site phase and requires an untapped character and an untapped site. In addition, the company must face any automatic-attacks located at the same site before such a card can be played.

Allies
A character may tap to play an ally card if he is at the site specified on the ally card and the character meets the requirements indicated on the ally card.
Let's list out all of the requirements for playing an Ally:
  1. An ally card must be played during your site phase
  2. An ally card requires an untapped character (unless stated otherwise on the card)
  3. An ally card requires an untapped site (unless stated otherwise on the card)
  4. The company must have faced any automatic-attacks located at the same site
  5. A character must tap to play an ally card
  6. The character must be at the site specified on the ally card
  7. The character must meet the requirements indicated on the ally card (e.g., on a RW or on a non-RW).
Requirement 3 (An ally card requires an untapped site (unless stated otherwise on the card)) is separate and distinct from Requirement 6 (The character must be at the site specified on the ally card). The phrase "tapped or untapped" on some allies specifically overrides Requirement 3. This is even indicated by the rules, which state:
Clarification: Playing a faction card, ally card, information card, or item card (unless stated otherwise on the card) requires an untapped character and an untapped site.

This should also be clear because "tapped or untapped" status is not an attribute of a Site. Site attributes include the site type, the region in which the site is found, the nearest haven, the site path to their nearest haven, the playable resources, and the automatic-attacks.

Furthermore, if "tapped or untapped" was describing the site for Requirement 6, then that would not be sufficient to override Requirement 3. The "tapped or untapped" statement must be overriding Requirement 3 in order for the Ally's card text for the words to make sense.

So when Glove of Radagast states "Any non-unique ally with 1 mind (a copy of which he does not already control) is considered playable with Radagast at his site" it is specifically modifying requirement 6 (the character must be at the site specified on the ally card or with Radagast at his site").
ICE Netrep wrote:From: ich...@spamblock.cstone.net (Craig Ichabod O'Brien)
Subject: Re: [MECCG] Fallen-wiz Q
Date: 1998/09/04

Here's a question for whichever NetRep happens to see it:

Glove of Radagast:

Unique. Radagast specific. Place this card on Radagast if he is in play.
Any non-unique ally
with 1 mind (a copy of which he does not already control) is
considered playable with
Radagast at his site. This ally may be taken from your discard
pile or hand.

All such allies also happen to be playable at tapped or untapped sites.
Does this change that?

No, it just adds to the playable sites, it doesn't change the required
status of those sites.
No. Glove of Radagast does not change the fact that such allies are playable at tapped sites.
Last edited by CDavis7M on Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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CDavis7M
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Konrad Klar wrote: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:21 am So if Radagast's company is at site, any ally with 1 mind (not already controlled by Radagast) is considered playable there. If other company moves to the site, and such ally is placed with Come at Need, the ally will attack the company (if Come at Need has been played by opponent, of course).
Not sure if you were agreeing with Brandobras's interpretation, but under his interpretation the Glove "adds an alternate playability to an ally," and so under that interpretation the ally with Come At Need is playable at Radagast's site but only "with Radagast."

But as mentioned above, "The character must be at the site specified on the ally card" is a separate requirement.
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Konrad Klar
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Thanks CDavis7M for putting attention on awkwardness of phrase "is considered playable with Radagast at his site.".
Resource is either playable at site or not.
Which site is the site where the resource is playable may be defined by site type, presence of some character, site's name etc.
But literally a resource is never playable with character.
It may be playable at given site AND may be played only by/with some character.
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Theo
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Konrad Klar wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:40 am But literally a resource is never playable with character.
It may be playable at given site AND may be played only by/with some character.
Oxford Languages definition of playable: able to be used or played.

Texts of certain factions:
"May also be used as a minion resource card that is only playable by a character in a covert company."

Evidently there is reason to believe that some resources may only be playable by certain characters.
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Konrad Klar
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Theo wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:56 am Evidently there is reason to believe that some resources may only be playable by certain characters.
Yes. But not in the game in which the terms "playable" and "may be played" are separate.
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CDavis7M
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Theo wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:56 am
Konrad Klar wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:40 am But literally a resource is never playable with character.
It may be playable at given site AND may be played only by/with some character.
Oxford Languages definition of playable: able to be used or played.

Texts of certain factions:
"May also be used as a minion resource card that is only playable by a character in a covert company."

Evidently there is reason to believe that some resources may only be playable by certain characters.
Well yes, that is requirement 7 (above)
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Konrad Klar
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I think that any company moving to a non-Darkhaven Under-deeps site will be affected by Come at Need with Great Troll.
Not only that containing The Balrog.
The Balrog: Great Troll
R Resource: Ally

Balrog-specific. Playable at a non-Darkhaven Under-deeps site and only by The Balrog. Troll. Even if it is tapped or wounded, you may assign a strike to this ally as though it were untapped. "Two great trolls appeared: they bore great slabs of stone, and flung them down to serve as gangways over the fire."-LotRII
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CDavis7M
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Konrad Klar wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:01 am I think that any company moving to a non-Darkhaven Under-deeps site will be affected by Come at Need with Great Troll.
Not only that containing The Balrog.
The Balrog: Great Troll
R Resource: Ally

Balrog-specific. Playable at a non-Darkhaven Under-deeps site and only by The Balrog. Troll. Even if it is tapped or wounded, you may assign a strike to this ally as though it were untapped. "Two great trolls appeared: they bore great slabs of stone, and flung them down to serve as gangways over the fire."-LotRII
Good thinking! It works this way because "only by The Balrog" in Great Troll references requirement 7, while "a site where the ally is playable" in Come at Need only references Requirement 6.
CDavis7M wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:13 am Let's list out all of the requirements for playing an Ally:
  1. An ally card must be played during your site phase
  2. An ally card requires an untapped character (unless stated otherwise on the card)
  3. An ally card requires an untapped site (unless stated otherwise on the card)
  4. The company must have faced any automatic-attacks located at the same site
  5. A character must tap to play an ally card
  6. The character must be at the site specified on the ally card
  7. The character must meet the requirements indicated on the ally card (e.g., on a RW or on a non-RW).
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Konrad Klar
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My point is that by/with XYZ character is not a factor that determines whether a resource is playable at a site.
Presence of XYZ character at the site may be such factor.
By/with matters when the resource is being played, likewise a result of influence check (in case of faction).

Whether a resource is playable at a site matters not only for purposes of determining whether the resource may be played.
For instance the ability of Mistress Lobelia, Come at Need rely on it.
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CDavis7M
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Konrad Klar wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:12 am My point is that by/with XYZ character is not a factor that determines whether a resource is playable at a site.
... yes... because requirement 6 and 7 are different requirements
Konrad Klar wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:12 am My point is that by/with XYZ character is not a factor that determines whether a resource is playable at a site.
Presence of XYZ character at the site may be such factor.
Presence of a particular XYZ character at the site is not a factor of the requirement that a character "must be at the site specified on the ally card" (ie "whether a resource is playable at a site")
Konrad Klar wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:12 am By/with matters when the resource is being played, likewise a result of influence check (in case of faction).
Of course it matters... But this is not like an influence check dice roll.
Konrad Klar wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:12 am Whether a resource is playable at a site matters not only for purposes of determining whether the resource may be played.
For instance the ability of Mistress Lobelia, Come at Need rely on it.
No one is advocating otherwise.

----------

The point is: there are many requirements for playing an ally resource. These are requirements. These different requirements still apply even if one requirement is modified.

A card can reference one playability requirement separate from the others. The non-unique 1 mind allies reference the "untapped site" requirement. Glove of Radagast references the "site" requirement and the "other requirements" requirement.

Glove of Radagast changing 2 requirements does not affect the other 5 requirements, and those requirements may be modified by other cards.
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Konrad Klar
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Some other cards/effects may alter playability conditions of a resource printed on the resource's card.

Thanks to Glove of Radagast Noble Hund may be considered playable at non-Border Hold sites. Presence of Radagast at the sites is a factor that determines a playability of Noble Hund.
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