Council of Elrond

I had this clear for many years, but people are making a fuss for my brains about it again

for me a Twilight played during m/h phase could not be canceled by Many Sorrows Befall, since Twilight is a hazard played as a resource,

so it remains a hazard by type is just not played as such, so not a legal target for MSB?

or am I missing something

Underline mine:

CRF wrote:If a card says it can be played as a resource, that does not mean it counts as a resource at any time except when it is being played.

That is, Twilight does count as a resource while it is being played as a resource, so it would be a valid target for Many Sorrows Befall up until its play is resolved.

I cannot find the rule in any copy of CRF I'm using.

Introduction. I'm looking at the Dutch site.

Thanks.

Some other points of reference. (underline mine)

CoE 19 wrote:3. Is Great Secrets Buried There considered to be a resource or hazard Permanent-event when in play and played as a resource on yourself?

*** It's a hazard card when it's resolved on the table as a permanent-event. It's a resource when it's played as such and not resolved yet.

However,

CoE 112 wrote:(1) Hans-Werner Milpetz asked: "Twilight can be played by any player at any time of the game, but for the hazard player, it counts against the hazard limit. Following situation: Hazard limit is two. My opponent plays first a Doors of Night and then Snowstorm. Now I play a twilight. He also has a twilight in his hand, but he may not play it, because he has fulfilled the hazard limit.
Is this right?"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is not right. The play of Twilight never counts against the hazard limit. (This is made explicit in the LE Rulesbook: "Clarification: The card, Twilight, is an exception to this rule - it can be played at anytime, either as a resource or as a hazard (it does not count against the hazard limit). Certain other cards specifically state when they may be played as exceptions.")

This is making me reconsider. By this clarification, the player playing the Twilight during their own movement hazard phase can still opt to play it as a hazard, so that it can't be targeted by an opponent's Many Sorrows Befall.

Given this, I'm not sure why anyone would ever want to play it as a resource. I guess you'd need to if Gates of Morning was in play.

I interpret that clarification differently. I don’t think it is saying the player can choose to play Twilight as a resource or as a hazard at any time.

I think it’s saying that the card may be played at any time. Thus anytime it is played during your turn it is a resource, and any time it is played by the hazard player, it is a hazard.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Indeed, the comma hides whether they mean "it can be played at anytime and can be played either as a resource or as a hazard", or whether they mean "it can be played at anytime because it can be played either as a resource or as a hazard.

Fortunately, the MELE rewording for the card does not suffer from the same comma ambiguity, but allows (underline my emphasis):
"Twilight may also be played as a resource, and may be played at any point during any player's turn."

Note that these two allowances are not conditional upon one another, but independent. I can opt to not use the first may, and then opt to use the second may.

CRF, Errata (Cards), Twilight wrote:Card Erratum: Add "This card may be played at any time during any player's turn."
Can target a card that has not yet resolved. Can be played as a resource during your opponent's turn.

The text of Twilight from MELE goes beyond errata and allows it to be played at any point during any player's turn.
That is the target of erratum proposal:
Twilight

But the CRF entry (in part not belonging to errata) says explicitly that it can be played as a resource during your opponent's turn.
(so the card may evade effects of Spying out the Land, or Here Is a Snake!)

Look what popped in the mail finally:

A Middle-earth The Wizards Casual Companion.

This is my "2nd" copy, my reader, which is why I am so happy, because this was a low cost one that I finally was like OK COOL, the last of my 2nd copy readers... but anyway...

I just read something, as this pertains to the exact conversation I had about this too, (now I know the "Book(s)" don't mean crap but):

From the ME:TWCC (page 7 – EVENTS)
Resource short and permanent-events can be played at any time during your turn (unless stated otherwise in their text). Resource long-events may only be played during the resource long-event phase of your turn. Hazard events, wether they be short, long, or permanent, may be played at any time during your opponent's movment/hazard phase. Remember, you will only play resource cards during your own turn; and you will only play hazard cards during your opponent's turn.

That's how I have always understood the turns to be for each player...

the Jabberwock wrote: ↑Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:20 pm I interpret that clarification differently. I don’t think it is saying the player can choose to play Twilight as a resource or as a hazard at any time.

I think it’s saying that the card may be played at any time. Thus anytime it is played during your turn it is a resource, and any time it is played by the hazard player, it is a hazard.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Finally someone who understands English and the game at the same time. Marvelous!

If you play a card as a resource it is a resource therefore MSB should be able to cancel it. It is really not rocket science.

And no Vastor, you cannot play hazards in your own turn. Please stop making this childish argument. For you and those who struggle to understand basics:
It can be played at anytime means I can play as a hazard to counter twilight played in phases other than M/H. But in your own turn you still play it as resource as playing a hazard in your own turn is inapplicable by this game. This is still not rocket science.

And then this:

From the ME:TWCC (page 7 – EVENTS)
Resource short and permanent-events can be played at any time during your turn (unless stated otherwise in their text). Resource long-events may only be played during the resource long-event phase of your turn. Hazard events, wether they be short, long, or permanent, may be played at any time during your opponent's movment/hazard phase. Remember, you will only play resource cards during your own turn; and you will only play hazard cards during your opponent's turn.

Text of a card makes a precedence over a general rules.
Twilight is not only card that may be played as hazard outside of opponent's M/H phase.
There are also Blind to the West and Ire of the East.

P.S.
Factual part of your questions is treated with full respect.
No one calls your questions or arguments as "childish".
Calling someones arguments or questions as "childish" is plain boorishness.
Do not expect that administrator or moderators will make an exception for you.

@Konrad - Yet in Vastor's interpretation that is the only card that can be played as hazard in his own turn... And that was his claim as the entire topic started off of our game where he claimed that.

And once we reached lecturing yet again. If the word childish is off limits in your world than I really, really, really envy your problems.

Hombarus wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:39 am And no Vastor, you cannot play hazards in your own turn. Please stop making this childish argument. For you and those who struggle to understand basics:
It can be played at anytime means I can play as a hazard to counter twilight played in phases other than M/H. But in your own turn you still play it as resource as playing a hazard in your own turn is inapplicable by this game. This is still not rocket science.

How about Blind to the West (played by player A in his turn) in response to Wizard's Laughter (played by player B) ?