I'll just refer to the actual rules instead of making rules up.
Shapeshifter wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:56 amA follow-up remark/question: I think that one can always respond to the hazard limit reducing effect of Mountains of Shadow / Ash Mountains by playing non-creature, non-corruption hazards in the same chain of effects in which the effect is declared, thus using up a HL of 4 in any case. Any doubts?
No, you cannot do this because it violates the Hazard Limit rules. The M/H phase has a series of steps that must be followed
in order. Revealing the site card and drawing cards happens in Step 1 while playing hazards cannot happen until Step 2. The hazard limit rules state that effects that modify the hazard limit which were previously played are
immediately applied when the new site is revealed. "Immediately applied" means applied before any part of Step 2 can happen. Hazard Limit modification timing is different than the timing for other effects played during the organization phase, which get "declared" in a chain of effects (CRF, organization phase) using last in first out ordering rather than "immediately applied" in some order chosen by the player.
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Shapeshifter wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:56 am@CDavis7M: Could you further explain why you think this is covered by the rules, please?
The CoE Netrep didn't understand passive conditions in general and often didn't bother to read the rules. The effect of Mountains of Shadow is clearly not a passive condition and the CoE Netrep failed to read the rules on applying effects played during the organization phase in the CRF and they failed to read the rules on the hazard limit. I've pointed out this hazard limit rule out to Konrad before too.
CDavis7M wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 5:13 pmThe order is already defined by the rules. The hazard limit reduction from cards played in the organization phase happen first, before other effects. So the hazard limit reduction from Mounts of Shadow happens first and then the hazard limit increase by Mount Doom happens second. In this example with 2 characters, Mountains of Shadow does not reduce the hazard limit because the effect has a minimum of 2. Then Mount Doom will increase the hazard limit by 2. So the company's hazard limit will be 4.
Mountains of Shadow is a card that was played prior to the new site being revealed. The ordering is defined:
1. Mount Doom card is revealed and the base hazard limit is set simultaneously. There are 2 characters so the base hazard limit is set to 2.
2. Cards played prior to the new site being revealed are
immediately applied. This does not happen in a chain of effects with last in first out orders -- it is immediately applied without being declared in an order set by the player. So Mountains of Shadow's effect is applied. The effect has a minimum of 2 so the hazard limit is 2.
3. Mount Doom's effect is applied by passive conditions so it will be first declared in the first chain of effects to happen after this card was revealed. The hazard limit of 2 is then increased by 2.
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I almost thought that the URD got this right because they copied the hazard limit rule. But no, the author decided to make up their own rules. You can often tell when the URD is wrong because it has no citation or it cites the CoE instead of the rules of the ICE rulings. There is no correct CoE ruling that is not already in the rules or covered by ICE. Anything relying on the CoE for justification is wrong.
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Sort of a side topic, but I feel like there is an overreliance on arguing "lots of people play like this" and "there is a ruling I remember." If there is a tournament, the player should have the rulesbook on hand to settle a dispute. It takes 2 minutes to look something up rather than spend 5 minutes discussing and another 5 to explain it to the tournament director. Tons of the CoE rulings are wrong and those rulings are actually way longer than the rules.