Alone and Unadvised AND Returning to a site of origin

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Konrad Klar
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Re: Alone and Unadvised AND Returning to a site of origin

Post by Konrad Klar »

miguel wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:04 pm
I'd say revealing the new site should be considered synonymous with the declaration and resolution of the new site. Revealing is not over until the site resolves, and that is when the cards are drawn.
I disagree. If it would not be known which site is attempted, it would not be known against what number the dice-roll is being performed.
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miguel
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Re: Alone and Unadvised AND Returning to a site of origin

Post by miguel »

Because the movement roll is caused by the rules and not by something in play, the site card does not need to be in play yet. What number the movement roll is against is known, because the declared site is known.

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Konrad Klar
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Re: Alone and Unadvised AND Returning to a site of origin

Post by Konrad Klar »

I disagree. It is not like "Whole Village Roused thing" that it is sufficient to know some information written on a card.
A company that failed the movement roll is considered returned to its site of origin. So its new site was in play at some moment.
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Konrad Klar
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Re: Alone and Unadvised AND Returning to a site of origin

Post by Konrad Klar »

Or ICE was just sick to say simply "company does not move".
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miguel
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Re: Alone and Unadvised AND Returning to a site of origin

Post by miguel »

Konrad Klar wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 9:21 am
I disagree. It is not like "Whole Village Roused thing" that it is sufficient to know some information written on a card.
A company that failed the movement roll is considered returned to its site of origin. So its new site was in play at some moment.
You're right, my bad. The site cards are in play because they either are already on the table, or they were played face down in the organization phase. The site card does get declared though (number of cards to draw, any additional effects, etc.), which is what causes the movement roll.

Also, I think the company is considered a moving company from the moment of the site's declaration, so Radagast can affect the number of cards to be drawn.

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Konrad Klar
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Re: Alone and Unadvised AND Returning to a site of origin

Post by Konrad Klar »

miguel wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 11:41 am
Also, I think the company is considered a moving company from the moment of the site's declaration, so Radagast can affect the number of cards to be drawn.
I agree. Otherwise a company that failed its movement roll would not be considered returned.
This also means that cards associated with company that must be discarded if the company moves, will be discarded even if movement roll failed.
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Theo
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Re: Alone and Unadvised AND Returning to a site of origin

Post by Theo »

CRF wrote:When a company's site of origin is an Under-deeps site and the company reveals a new site at the start of its movement/hazard phase, the company is declaring it will make a roll to determine if the movement was successful. No cards can be played between the site being revealed and the roll except for Reach of Ulmo. Neither player draws cards for this movement if the roll is not successful.
Underlined phrase must mean something akin to "if the movement declaration was successful", or "if the movement successfully starts", or "if any movement was successful". It cannot mean the entire movement to the new site is successful, because the company could still be returned by other means, or even be disbanded before completing the movement. If movement declaration was not successful (or movement did not start, or no movement was successful), there was no movement to trigger discard passives. Under-deeps movement declaration changes the normal simultaneous reveal-and-draw rules and the normal "from the moment the new site is revealed" moving company rules.
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Konrad Klar
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Re: Alone and Unadvised AND Returning to a site of origin

Post by Konrad Klar »

Theo wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:49 am
Under-deeps movement declaration changes the normal simultaneous reveal-and-draw rules and the normal "from the moment the new site is revealed" moving company rules.
So
Dark Minions wrote:Otherwise, the company returns to its
site of origin and the movement/hazard phase proceeds as if the company had not
moved.
CRF wrote:If a company returns to its site of origin, it may do nothing during its site phase. A
company failing it's underdeeps movement roll is not affected by this rule.
should be removed, or changed?
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Theo
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Re: Alone and Unadvised AND Returning to a site of origin

Post by Theo »

Changing the wording of the original Dark Minions rule is achieved by the existence of the CRF Under-deeps ruling.

The second sentence of the CRF ruling on returning to origin does not contradict this; it is unnecessary with the other CRF change, but can help reinforce the implications of the change on gameplay.
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CDavis7M
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Re: Alone and Unadvised AND Returning to a site of origin

Post by CDavis7M »

Theo wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:55 pm
The second sentence of the CRF ruling on returning to origin does not contradict this; it is unnecessary with the other CRF change, but can help reinforce the implications of the change on gameplay.
Not so fast there. We need to know exactly how the underdeeps dice roll is declared with respect to revealing the card even there there is no timing issue or impact on gameplay because reasons.

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