The Balrog movement problems

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Theo
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The Balrog movement problems

Post by Theo » Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:47 am

Consider the combination of the following:
METB wrote:A Balrog player acts as a Ringwraith player. Any card and rules text applying to a Ringwraith also applies to The Balrog (e.g., if a card refers to a Ringwraith, it now applies to “a Ringwraith or The Balrog”).
However, instead of using the special rules listed on page 59 of the MELE rules (or wherever else these rules may appear), a Balrog player uses the following special rules:
...
MELE p.25 wrote:MOVING YOUR RINGWRAITH’S COMPANY
The company containing your Ringwraith may freely move from Darkhaven to Darkhaven and from a non-Darkhaven site to a Darkhaven. However, in order to move from a Darkhaven to a non-Darkhaven site, a Ringwraith must have a special resource card: a Black Rider card, a Fell Rider card, or a Heralded Lord card (i.e., the Ringwraith must be in Black Rider mode, in Fell Rider mode, or in Heralded Lord mode).
CRF Ringwraiths wrote: Ringwraiths may not move from a non-Darkhaven site to another non- Darkhaven site unless they are using Dwar Unleashed. This means a Ringwraith may not move to Under-deeps sites that do not have a Darkhaven for a surface site.
METB wrote:A Balrog player may not include any of the following cards: Above the Abyss, Kill All But NOT the Halflings, The Lidless Eye, Bade to Rule , Morgul-blade, The Balrog (Ally), News of the Shire, The Black Council, Open to the Summons, Black Horse, Orders From Lugburz, Black Rider, Padding Feet, By the Ringwraith’s Word, The Ring Leaves its Mark, Creature of an Older World, Ringwraith cards, Ringwriath Unleashed Cards, Fell Rider, Sauron, The Fiery Blade, They Ride Together, Helm of Fear, Use Your Legs, Heralded Lord, While the Yellow Face Sleeps, Durin’s Bane, Balrog of Moria.
No rules similar to the MELE and CRF rules appear on page 59 of the MELE rules.

The implication: the company containing your Balrog cannot move to any non-Darkhaven site from any other site?

I have not found any rules (including cards) that overcome these limitations.

Balrog player dominance solved? :shock:
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Theo
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Re: The Balrog movement problems

Post by Theo » Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:52 am

With no other explanation, there is:
CoE #59 wrote:Balrog can move normally to various under-deeps sites and Moria (surface
site) without supporting cards right?

*** Correct.
Since The Under-gates alone is not "various" under-deeps sites, presumably any under-deeps site is allowed.

With no other explanation, it remains uncertain whether this is because companies with The Balrog are permitted some special exception to the MELE and CRF restrictions above for under-deeps sites alone, or whether they get full exceptions to the MELE and CRF restrictions even for surface sites.
It is not our part here to take thought only for a season, or for a few lives of Men, or for a passing age of the world.
One [online community] with hammer and chisel might mar more than they make... Cautious skill!
Double Standards.

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Konrad Klar
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Re: The Balrog movement problems

Post by Konrad Klar » Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:40 am

Theo wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:47 am
The implication: the company containing your Balrog cannot move to any non-Darkhaven site from any other site?
Yes. They screwed it up.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.

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CDavis7M
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Re: The Balrog movement problems

Post by CDavis7M » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:38 pm

There are no problems. The MELE rules only prevent a Ringwraith from using Region Movement. They do not prevent a Ringwraith from using Starter Movement or Under-deeps movement. The CRF ruling on "Ringwraith" movement mentioned above predates the Balrog expansion. There is nothing to suggest that CRF rulings on Ringwraiths should apply to The Balrog. All of the rulings by term "Ringwraith" are particular to actual Ringwraiths, not to The Balrog.

The Balrog is not prevented from using Under-deeps movement by the rules or CRF. This should be obvious from The Balrog card itself.

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Konrad Klar
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Re: The Balrog movement problems

Post by Konrad Klar » Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:46 pm

CDavis7M wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:38 pm
There are no problems.
Only people who cannot read are seeing a problem.
They ask whether:
the company containing your Balrog cannot move to any non-Darkhaven site from any other site?
While answer is:
The Balrog is not prevented from using Under-deeps movement by the rules or CRF.
CDavis7M wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:38 pm
The CRF ruling on "Ringwraith" movement mentioned above predates the Balrog expansion
CRF Ringwraiths wrote:Ringwraiths may not move from a non-Darkhaven site to another non- Darkhaven site unless they are using Dwar Unleashed. This means a Ringwraith may not move to Under-deeps sites that do not have a Darkhaven for a surface site.
does not add anything new. What it states is the implication from general rules.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.

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