Some basic Fallen Wizard deck questions

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DuncanNeeds2Shave
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Wow. Thank you for that explanation. As always, I very much appreciate the time people on this forum are willing to give in order to help me understand this game better. When I become a billionaire, I will hire all of the most knowledgeable individuals of meccg, and we will resurrect it! With comprehensive, complete rules explanations and clarifications! Also, pretty new artwork on newly printed cards.

Right now, I'm still reading through a lot of the FW cards. I can't explain why anyone would want their stage points reduced. I can't explain why anyone would want their faction normally worth 4 to only be worth 3. But all that is stuff I think I can figure out on my own if I just look more closely later at everything.

The only rule that is really bugging me is this: I may not, as a FW, bring into play a character with a mind greater than 5, but I believe I may keep such characters in my play deck. Should I successfully influence away from my opponent such a character like Celeborn, Glorfindel, or even the man (elf) himself, Elrond, by revealing a copy of that character, what conditions, if any would allow me to keep him? If I take Celeborn away from my opponent, may I immediately play Thrall of the Voice to keep him under my control? Or is he discarded forthwith? Like general influence is to be corrected at the end of my organization phase, allowing me to have too many characters (too much mind) for a brief, useless spell, does the FW wizard rule about 5 mind or less function similarly?
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CDavis7M
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DuncanNeeds2Shave wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:33 pm I can't explain why anyone would want their stage points reduced.
Stage points are needed to bring other stage resources into play. But many of the hazards in MEWH are harsher on a FW that has more stage points. So you may want fewer stage points depending on whether you need them or not.
DuncanNeeds2Shave wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:33 pm more I can't explain why anyone would want their faction normally worth 4 to only be worth 3.
For FW, all non-stage MPs are only 1MP. So it's not worth 4MP. But it may be worth it to play FW because you can achieve more than 1MP for that faction with stage cards and you also get to use both hero cards and minion cards.
DuncanNeeds2Shave wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:33 pm The only rule that is really bugging me is this: I may not, as a FW, bring into play a character with a mind greater than 5, but I believe I may keep such characters in my play deck. Should I successfully influence away from my opponent such a character like Celeborn, Glorfindel, or even the man (elf) himself, Elrond, by revealing a copy of that character, what conditions, if any would allow me to keep him?
You can have them in your deck but you cannot play them. You can reveal them during an influence attempt to reduce the target value to beat to 0, but you cannot play the character if the attempt was successful.
DuncanNeeds2Shave wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:33 pm If I take Celeborn away from my opponent, may I immediately play Thrall of the Voice to keep him under my control?
Thrall of the Voice's effect doesn't work like that, and it also cannot be played outside of the Organization phase. MEWH states "You may only play stage resource permanent-events during your organization phase (unless a specific card states otherwise)." So it cannot be played during the Site Phase.

Also, Thrall states "Instead of a normal character, during your organization phase you may bring into play one character." The character is played instead of a normal character. It can't be used during an influence attempt. You must try to discard the character using an influence attempt and then play the character on your next turn.
DuncanNeeds2Shave wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:33 pm Like general influence is to be corrected at the end of my organization phase, allowing me to have too many characters (too much mind) for a brief, useless spell, does the FW wizard rule about 5 mind or less function similarly?
The rules are worded differently and so they work differently. The player is allowed to play a character regardless of influence but they are restricted from having characters that do not fit under influence at the end of the organization phase. On the other hand, a FW player is simply restricted from playing a character with greater than 5 mind at all. There is no initial allowance to be checked later.

There is also a clarification to the FW rules on characters: "Fallen-wizards may not play characters with more than five mind, but if they have one in play the character is not discarded."
DuncanNeeds2Shave
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Interesting. I think I'm ready to build some FW decks. Thanks again for your help!
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Theo
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One last detail I noticed: FW players may use their Fallen-wizard haven cards instead of a hero/minion version; they are not required to use the Haven version.
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DuncanNeeds2Shave
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Can we think of any reason why you wouldn't want to use the FW haven version?
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Shapeshifter
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There might be good reasons. For example in order to deny a FW opponent the Wizardhaven: Hidden Haven + Guarded Haven on the R/L version of The White Towers... Another example is to be able to play wolf allies in Isengard.

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Konrad Klar
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Guarded Haven cannot be played on the sites.
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Shapeshifter
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My bad.

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Konrad Klar
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No problem. Hidden Haven alone does the trick. Wizardhaven still may become protected with help of Fortress of the Towers/The Fortress of Isen or with Sapling of the White Tree + The White Tree + Wizard's Trove.
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DuncanNeeds2Shave
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I was a bit uncertain about the meaning of "protected" haven. Is "protected" just a key word for the mechanics? Or is there some other significance? I was under the impression that FW havens function the same as Wizard havens, so in what sense are they un- "protected," if not as a mechanic key term?
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Konrad Klar
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There are no rules that refer to the term "protected Wizardhaven". Some cards refer.

For instances the Nature's Revenge may be played on unprotected Wizardhaven in Wilderness, Girdle of Radagast may be played on player's protected Wizardhaven.
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DuncanNeeds2Shave
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Right, so it is indeed a mechanics thing, as I suspected. Thank you.
DuncanNeeds2Shave
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May I, as a FW player, use Smoke Rings/Weigh All Things to a Nicety to retrieve FW resources such as Hidden Haven, Wizard's Myrmidon, Fortress of the Towers, or any of the other mint green colored FW resources?
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CDavis7M
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Yes.
DuncanNeeds2Shave
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If I include in my starting company a character with a mind of 6 like Celeborn, using Thrall of the Voice (to reduce his mind to 5), how are his mind points counted toward my total, maximum of 20? Will he count as 5 or 6?
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