Council of Elrond

The Ithil-stone wrote:Unique. Palantír. Playable at Barad-dûr. When a character taps to play Ithil-stone, make a roll (draw a #). If this result plus the number of scouts in his company is greater than 9, Ithil-stone is successfully played. Otherwise, the bearer is eliminated and Ithil-stone is placed in your out of play pile. Bearer makes a corruption check at the end of each of his untap phases. Bane of the Ithil-stone is discarded and cannot be played. If The Lidless Eye is in play, its player's hand size decreases by two.

MELE Rulesbook wrote:A Ringwraith player may use any hero item resource card as if it were a minion item resource card. Similarly, a Wizard player may use any minion item resource card as if it were a hero item resource card. The following apply:
• All normal requirements must be met to play the item.
• All restrictions to movement still apply.
• All bonuses and special abilities are ignored.
• The item is only worth half (round up) of its normal marshalling points.
• The hero version of a unique item is a manifestation of the same minion version of the item and vice versa.

Supposing I'm a minion player. One of my companies at Barad-dûr consisting of an Orc Captain and two Orc Snifflers tries to play the (hero) Ithil-stone. These two orc scouts counts for the purpose of playing the Ithil-stone? (i.e., instead of having to roll greater than 9, be able to play it with a roll greater than 7). Are the "number of scouts" considered a bonus/special ability or is "a requirement"?

Requirement is successful roll - with modified result greater than 9.

Thanks for your answer, Konrad.

If we consider the same example, but this time with a Fallen-wizard player, the two orc scouts counts to put into play the Ithil-stone? According to the MEWH booklet:

MEWH, Special Orc & Troll Rules wrote:

• A hero resource that requires a character with a specific skill may not use an Orc or Troll character to fulfill that requirement (e.g., Concealment, Many Tums and Doublings, etc.).

• An Orc or Troll character may be the bearer of a hero item, but all bonuses and special abilities are ignored (all restrictions to movement and playability still apply).

The examples mentioned in the MEWH rules (Concealment, Many Tums and Doublings...) are events, not items. But, at the same time, the Ithil-stone is a hero resource.

This case is considered the same as the previous one or it would be different?

Annatar wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:30 pmSupposing I'm a minion player. One of my companies at Barad-dûr consisting of an Orc Captain and two Orc Snifflers tries to play the (hero) Ithil-stone. These two orc scouts counts for the purpose of playing the Ithil-stone? (i.e., instead of having to roll greater than 9, be able to play it with a roll greater than 7). Are the "number of scouts" considered a bonus/special ability or is "a requirement"?

One of the "normal requirements" (as written on the card) to play Ithil-stone is that "this result plus the number of scouts in his company is greater than 9." In general, a adding a value to a dice roll could be called a "bonus," but this is not how MECCG uses the term "bonus." MECCG refers to pluses and minuses to dice rolls as "modifications" and refers to pluses and minuses to attributes (prowess, body, strikes, etc.) as "bonuses." "Bonuses" and "special abilities" in MECCG refer to things that are used after playing a card. Adding the number of scouts is not a "bonus" in MECCG. It is also not really a "requirement," just part of the dice roll requirement. Still, I don't see how part of a requirement can be ignored when the rule states "All normal requirements must be met to play the item." Hero special item Twice Baked Cakes is playable at a tapped site -- that is a "bonus" in the general sense but not a bonus according to MECCG. Instead, this is still part of the "normal requirements to play the item."

I think this makes sense. Minions play hero items the same way the heroes do, they just can't use them and they get half MP.

----------

Annatar wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:12 pm If we consider the same example, but this time with a Fallen-wizard player, the two orc scouts counts to put into play the Ithil-stone? According to the MEWH booklet:

MEWH, Special Orc & Troll Rules wrote:

• A hero resource that requires a character with a specific skill may not use an Orc or Troll character to fulfill that requirement (e.g., Concealment, Many Tums and Doublings, etc.).

• An Orc or Troll character may be the bearer of a hero item, but all bonuses and special abilities are ignored (all restrictions to movement and playability still apply).

Ithil-stone does not "require a character with a specific skill," it just has a "requirement to play the item" that is based on characters having a specific skill. These are different things.

OK, thank you for that clarification.