Nenya

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Konrad Klar
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CDavis7M wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 6:03 pm However, for Marvels Told there is no active condition for playing the card.
Thanks.
I do not see an inconsistency in your understanding of Active Conditions, even if my is different.

However:
Annotation 8: An action that requires a target is considered to have the active condition that the target be in play when the action is declared.
so if event to discard is not active condition of Marvels Told, why it would not be chosen when the Marvels Told resolves?
CDavis7M wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 6:03 pm Praise to Elbereth cancels events, yes. But tapping Adunaphel results in Adunaphel becoming a short-event, which is an event and can be canceled by Praise to Elbereth.
Is becoming a short-event, that is declared. And as you said "There's no resource that is as generally powerful as Many Sorrows Befall." (maybe beside Twilight played as resource).
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CDavis7M
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Konrad Klar wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:17 pm
Annotation 8: An action that requires a target is considered to have the active condition that the target be in play when the action is declared.
so if event to discard is not active condition of Marvels Told, why it would not be chosen when the Marvels Told resolves?
The event to-be-discarded is not an active condition of the action of playing Marvels Told (moving the card from your hand to the play area and resolving it in a chain of effects). The event to be discarded is a target of the discard-action, which is one of the effects of Marvels Told. The action of playing a card is different from any actions (card moving, dice rolling, etc) that are the effects of that card. Moving Marvels Told from your hand to the play area, discarding the hazard event, and rolling dice are each separate actions and Annotation 8 applies to these actions separately.

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Konrad Klar wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:17 pm
CDavis7M wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 6:03 pm Praise to Elbereth cancels events, yes. But tapping Adunaphel results in Adunaphel becoming a short-event, which is an event and can be canceled by Praise to Elbereth.
Is becoming a short-event, that is declared.
Yes, tapping as an active condition also immediately declares Adunaphel (etc) as a short-event at the same game-time as the tapping. Becoming a short-event is an active condition.

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Back to wizard spells, the playing them without an attack (or whatever) but causing a corruption check meets the requirements of "Legal Play of Cards" because dice are rolled. And the point of the Legal Play rule is so that a player cannot just discard a card. The original rule before Legal Play was simply that the card must apply to an existing situation and maybe not be played just to be discarded. I was thinking that Legal Play was more specific than it is. It defines that "a card may only be played if..." not "a card may be played if..."

So I think the "existing situation" rule would apply to wizard spells, and marvels, and everything: "Unless stated otherwise, a card is playable only if its effect applies to an existing situation, hazard, attack, etc. (i.e., you may not play a card just to discard it). A card cannot be played for no effect."
may be played if it has a potential effect.
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Konrad Klar
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Small update.
Konrad Klar wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 2:44 pm This works because none of the characters chosen to tap is target. Otherwise removing any of them before resolution would fizzle Praise to Elbereth.
And even if they would be the targets. Player may opt to not choose any of them at declaration.
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Just ressurecting this thread for two reasons:

1. Just to point out there is some dispute/dissagreement whether the Nenya card can be played even if there is not another CC to cancel. I would tend to agree with the view that as it is be played on Galadriel as a character - therefore the non-SH/DH CC to be affected, as stated lastly on the card, may or may not be evident. I do agree now though the G -1/-3 CC mentioned on the card should not be auto affected by one copy of Nenya played. It could be cancelled by a second Nenya though (see point 2. below). There has to be a point where the intent of the card has to be taken into account. If you look at a card like 'Old Friendship' - this is different. It isn't playable on a specific character like Nenya is, and so if the influence attempt or the CC isn't occurring it shouldn't be playable just to discard from the hand.

2. A newer less evident question for me though is 'should Nenya's effects stack''? You can have 3 copies in the hand so they could all be played to give +6 prowess etc? I have seen Old Friendship played like this on a ring dunk attempt to give 2 cards stacking with +8 against the ring dunk CC. Also, G should then only make one CC at -1/-3 as two of the Nenya's cancel the CC of two others where 3 copies are played? This is how I see it - do others agree or disagree?
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Konrad Klar
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Lake Town Geezer wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 6:32 am There has to be a point where the intent of the card has to be taken into account.
"Galadriel makes a cc modified by -3, by -1 if in a [-me_ha-]. Any one cc made by a character not in a [-me_sh-] or [-me_dh-] is automatically successful. "

Meaning (or lack of it) of word "Any" is not obvious.
Often in texts of other cards this denotes extension of normal scope. Tom Bombadil, Adûnaphel the Ringwraith can tap to cancel attack or hazard that targets not their own companies. Normally, for attacks, a character must be in company facing an attack to be able to affect the attack.

Either way, if cc to be affected is a target of an action, the cc must be specified/chosen at declaration of the action. The cc to be affected must be already declared earlier in the same chain of effects.
If cc to be affected is not a target of an action, then it is specified in other way (preferably described in text of an affecting card).
Lake Town Geezer wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 6:32 am A newer less evident question for me though is 'should Nenya's effects stack''?
Player can play three Nenya in a row. Each affecting (targeting?) the same or different cc. Nothing in text of Nenya prevents it and no rule forbids an affecting one cc by multiple actions.
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Lake Town Geezer
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A nice combo might be, if you had Galadriel and Gandalf in play is Galadriel in Luthien playing Nenya to affect Gandalfs Narya CC declared earlier as he battles a Balrog in Moria - very thematic!
Last edited by Lake Town Geezer on Tue Apr 18, 2023 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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CDavis7M
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Lake Town Geezer wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 2:34 pm A nice combo might be, if you had Galadriel and Gandalf in play is Galadriel in Luthien playing Nenya to affect Gandalfs CC declared earlier as he battles a Balrog in Moria - very thematic!
Yeah, there are some fun decks you can make using the rings. I'm looking for my copies of Clear Skies and was just digging through a physical deck with Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf, each with their rings. They go for Pass the Doors of Dol Guldur. Then I have dream cards too, with Towers Destroyed (check it out). Another cool DC is "the three are together."

In my deck they go to Sulfur Deeps for weapons. Some weapons are not Warrior Only (Orcrist, Glamdring, Sting, Durin's Axe).
Lake Town Geezer
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CDavis7M wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 3:35 pm
Lake Town Geezer wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 2:34 pm A nice combo might be, if you had Galadriel and Gandalf in play is Galadriel in Luthien playing Nenya to affect Gandalfs CC declared earlier as he battles a Balrog in Moria - very thematic!
Yeah, there are some fun decks you can make using the rings. I'm looking for my copies of Clear Skies and was just digging through a physical deck with Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf, each with their rings. They go for Pass the Doors of Dol Guldur. Then I have dream cards too, with Towers Destroyed (check it out). Another cool DC is "the three are together."

In my deck they go to Sulfur Deeps for weapons. Some weapons are not Warrior Only (Orcrist, Glamdring, Sting, Durin's Axe).
Yes - I thought a lot about getting the three elven ring bearers together in one company as well. Nenya could be the lynch pin that unlocks the potential of Narya and/or Vilya in really exciting combat combos due to the ability to cancel the CCs. If you are going up against a FW or a minion you know you can get both Elrond and Galadriel out in the starting company. Just thinking about what those two could achieve on Turn1 or 2 with a copy of Nenya and Vilya in hand gets me very excited indeed! Shame one isn't a ranger. Not sure if there is a 1 mind ranger you could throw in to help mitigate a River. Of course you could just cram your deck with loads of 4 mind rangers (the brothers, Gildor, Peath) and chances are you will drop one or a ranger wizard on the first org phase anyway (alas Gandalf isn't a ranger)..
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