Council of Elrond

The Dragons: Here, There, or Yonder
Rarity: Uncommon, Precise: U2

Resource: Short-event

Tap a character during his site phase at a tapped or untapped . Make a roll (or draw a #) modified by +3 if the character is a diplomat. An ally may be played and placed under the character's control if the result is greater than 6 plus the ally's mind stat and the ally is not restricted from moving in this site's region. If an ally is played, tap the site if it is not already tapped.

What causes tapping the site? Playing ally or the text "If an ally is played, tap the site if it is not already tapped." (that in second case is separate action performed after playing ally) ?
In other words: can/cannot FW player use the card to play minion ally at minion ?

Here, There, or Yonder has an effect that will tap the site if it is not already tapped. Thus it needs to be the same alignment as the site per MEWH, regardless of whether playing the ally taps the site or not.

How the text should be formulated if tapping would be effect of playing of ally, and not separate action?

I would imagine something like omitting the last sentence and having the ruling clarifications point out that normally "After an ally is played at a site, the site card is tapped." (As was done for Hour of Need and Old Road.) Here, There, or Yonder invokes this default by using the term "play" rather than just "place."

Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:26 am What causes tapping the site? Playing ally or the text "If an ally is played, tap the site if it is not already tapped." (that in second case is separate action performed after playing ally) ?
In other words: can/cannot FW player use the card to play minion ally at minion ?

There's two issues:
1) In order to play a non-Fallen-wizard resource that would normally tap a site, either the site and the resource to be played must both be hero cards or they must both be minion cards.
2) A hero resource event card may not target/affect a minion site card or a minion resource card.

Theo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 7:23 am Here, There, or Yonder has an effect that will tap the site if it is not already tapped. Thus it needs to be the same alignment as the site per MEWH, regardless of whether playing the ally taps the site or not.

I don't think the "tap the site" rule is an issue here since the given scenario is already playing a minion ally at a minion site. Though I agree that they do need to be the same alignment and that Here, There, or Yonder would normally tap the site, and so the site and resource would need to be hero.

I think the main issue is that hero resource Here, There, or Yonder cannot affect a minion resource ally card in your hand such that it is "played and placed under the character's control."

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Now, can Here, There, or Yonder still be played at a minion site if that site is already tapped such that it is not actually affected? Well, if the site is tapped then I don't see any affect on the site. And there is also no "targeting" of the site since the player does not need to specifically choose or select the site. The site is identified by the card text as being the site that the character is at without any targeting.

I guess so. Though the ally would need to be a minion ally and they cannot be played. This is a question of Legal Play of Cards and 10 • PLAYING AND DRAWING CARDS.

A character would be tapped and dice would be rolled so this seems like it at least meets the requirements of Legal Play of Cards. Still, I don't see how the effect of here Here, There, or Yonder can be said to apply to the situation of a site phase at a minion site give the MEWH rules. A card is playable only if its effect applies to an existing situation (i.e., you may not play a card just to discard it). Sure there is still the cost of tapping a character, but there is no effect in the game.

If a playing a card is affecting the card. Or if action "you may play a card" affects the card.

BTW: Does preventing a playing of a card affects the card? If so Skies of Fire may evade Balance Between Powers.

Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:46 pm If a playing a card is affecting the card. Or if action "you may play a card" affects the card.

BTW: Does preventing a playing of a card affects the card? If so Skies of Fire may evade Balance Between Powers.

Moving a card from your hand to a different deck, pile, or area of the game affects the card.

CDavis7M wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 8:13 pm Moving a card from your hand to a different deck, pile, or area of the game affects the card.

If a playing a card is affecting the card. Or if action "you may play a card" affects the card.
And if manipulating a card in deck/pile/sideboard affects the card.