Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 8:16 pm
Tower Raided is declared and Weariness of the Heart on (only in company) untapped scout bearing 2MP item is revealed on-guard.
Scout is discarded in result cc along with the item.
The relevant rules are:
1. If an on-guard card is revealed, treat it as if it had been played during the movement/hazard phase.
2. An action in a chain of effects is negated if the conditions required to perform it are negated by another action that is resolved
before it in the chain of effects.
The effect of the on-guard card is either in the same chain of effects and therefore cannot negate active conditions, or it is treated as though it resolved before this chain of effects and so it cannot negate conditions and instead the conditions were never there in the first place. The rules explicitly say the on guard card already happened. I don't see how it could be both.
If the play of Weariness of the Heart is treated as if it had resolved in the movement/hazard phase then the discarding (eliminating) of the character and discarding of the item has already resolved and Tower Raided could not have been declared at all. If Weariness of the Heart is treated as if it resolved in a different chain of effects, then it is not possible to negate another effect because effects are negated when their conditions are removed by something that resolved earlier in that same chain.
Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 8:16 pm
CRF, Guess where wrote:A revealed on-guard card retroactively takes effect as though it were both declared and resolved immediately prior to the chain of effects during which it was revealed.
So what then? Is the declaration of Tower Raided still valid?
The on-guard mechanic allows the hazard player to play a hazard but wait to spring it as a trap during the site phase. This is why the on-guard hazards are treated as if they have already resolved in the movement/hazard phase. The declaration of Tower Raided has not become invalid. It was never valid. The hazard player knew this but the resource player did not. The hazard player lets the resource player know by revealing their on-guard card.
But is convoluted and so most of the ways to do this were removed except for Weariness and corruption since it was the example in the rulesbook. I remember reading some older ICE rulings from before all of these clarifications, like with New Moon, etc. And I think there a preliminary ruling about discarding the item (though this seems to miss the point that the item either could not have been declared at all or the character cannot be tapped since they are already tapped) and then the rules were clarified to say that most of these cards (except corruption) were banned on guard.
