FWs and MELE (Here We Go Again . . .)

[Bandobras Took]

A few years back, I noted that FWs do not inherit MELE rules so long as those rules are bulleted. Subsequent discussion and voting revealed that:

1) Players didn't overwhelmingly like the idea (see Orc/Troll erratum); and

2) ICE was very confused on the subject themselves (see thread here viewtopic.php?f=143&t=3354&start=15, with archival NetRep responses indicating FWs seem to inherit rules even if they're bulleted)

Since it seems we have to assume that FWs inherit bulleted rules where relevant, the following seems interesting:

If you store a gold ring, it is automatically tested (see page 44).

If you store a gold ring, it is automatically tested with a modification of -2.

Are gold rings tested when stored by a FW? The conclusion would seem to be yes, since both the ICE NetRep and player voting seem to indicate, as mentioned, that FWs inherit RW rules where possible.

(As a side note, I'll mention that I'd still rather the bulleted rules in their entirety remain strictly for RW players, as indicated on p. 73 of MELE, precisely to avoid these kinds of issues, but we have to work with what we've got.)

[Manuel]

Since it seems we have to assume that FWs inherit bulleted rules where relevant

Hmm I'm afraid I'm not following you on this one. This is what the MEWH rules say:

USING MEWH
When you play a Fallen-wizard, assume that your Fallen-wizard is a METW “Wizard”. All of the normal METW rules apply except for the specific exceptions outlined in these rules. The MELE rules that concern Wizards also apply to Fallen-wizards.

And then, the ICE Netreps ruled and the community voted that Orc/Trolls follow rules for Orc/trolls played by minion. And that also goes the other way around, when interpreting how Half-Orcs are played when you are a minion player. Maybe I'm missing something but to me it's only the rules regarding play Orc/troll characters in FW decks.

The fact that we have to follow certain bulleted rules when playing Orc/Troll characters in FW doesn't mean we have to follow all other bulleted rules. At least that's my opinion

[Bandobras Took]

Just making sure. I've been away for a few years; I'm not sure where the community is on various issues.

It'd be nice to be able to realistically do a FW Rings-for-Points deck in a 2-deck setting though. The practical inability to reliably play ring tests sort of voids it, and storing to test might have been a reasonable workaround.

[Konrad Klar]

Both some bulleted and some not bulleted parts of Lidless Eye manual are hard coded to a Ringwraith player.

E.g. not bulleted:

Minion: A character controlled by a Ringwraith player. Non-Ringwraith minion cards have a rusted-purplish iron
background. Each Ringwraith minion card has a blood-red stone background. Minions are the only characters included
in MELE.

is either not usable definition of Minion for MEWH, or according to the definition, Minion character under control of FW player does not exist.

or as you noticed:

So, by the same argument, ICE felt that FW Companies are minion companies.

TROPHIES
If one of your minion companies defeats a creature, you may place the creature's card under the control of any Orc or Troll character that faced a strike from the creature's attack. This card is called a "trophy" and is treated as a minor item with zero corruption points.

Since Orcs and Trolls could take trophies, they must have been in minion companies all this time.

Boy, are the rules are a mess.

Problems are lying in Lidless Eye manual. Any redirection of MELE rules to MEWH rules will be burdened by the problems.

[Bandobras Took]

Yes; as I said, I asked the question to get a better sense of the community's stance.

[Konrad Klar]

If you store a gold ring, it is automatically tested (see page 44).

If you store a gold ring, it is automatically tested with a modification of -2.

The texts are problematic even outside context of MEHW.
If to treat them as rules they mean that a gold ring stored at Carn Dûm is tested with cumulative modifier -4 (-2 per rule, -2 per Carn Dûm special text).
Gold ring stored in result of Messenger of Mordor is tested with modifier -2.

[Manuel]

Just making sure. I've been away for a few years; I'm not sure where the community is on various issues.

It'd be nice to be able to realistically do a FW Rings-for-Points deck in a 2-deck setting though. The practical inability to reliably play ring tests sort of voids it, and storing to test might have been a reasonable workaround.

Well, this is more a strategy discussion, but I believe a Rings-for-Points 2-deck strategy is doable with FW. I just need to find the time to build that...

As a side note, the ROC is currently working on a digest clarifying this Half-Orc MEWH/MELE thing, and it will be included in CRF 18, so hopefully it all will be a little less messy from now on