Armory Hoard Bypass

[Bandobras Took]

You're misunderstanding my argument, I think.

• Special Items have no bearing when discussing Armory and Necklace of Girion, because they list their own rules for play.

• The rules clearly state that Major Items must be played at a site that list Major Items as playable. Necklace of Girion overturns this. Necklace of Girion also overturns the rule that Hoard Items must be played at Hoard Sites.

• Armory does *not* overturn the rule that minor items must be played at a site that list minor items as playable or after the play of another resource that taps the site (these are the rules that explain exactly "when you would otherwise be allowed to play a minor item"). It does, however, overturn the rule that Hoard Items must be played at Hoard Sites.

I used Necklace of Girion simply to show precedent -- some cards allow the play of hoard items even though the character who receives the item is not at a hoard site. Armory is one of those cards.

[Konrad Klar]

The rules clearly state that Major Items must be played at a site that list Major Items as playable. Necklace of Girion overturns this. Necklace of Girion also overturns the rule that Hoard Items must be played at Hoard Sites.

I would say: normally major items may be played only at a site where major item is playable.

Necklace of Girion allows to play a major item under control of a character at a site where major item is not necessarily playable.
Item played in result of discarding of Necklace of Girion is not played at site. The same for item played after storing of Mithril or Gems of Arda.

Armory does *not* overturn the rule that minor items must be played at a site that list minor items as playable or after the play of another resource that taps the site (these are the rules that explain exactly "when you would otherwise be allowed to play a minor item"). It does, however, overturn the rule that Hoard Items must be played at Hoard Sites.

Does not overturn "when", does not overturn "under which conditions", does alter "from where".
And I do not see why an altering of "from where" would alter "which (minor) item is allowed to play".

EDIT: "at a site that where major item is playable." -> "at a site where major item is playable."

[sarma72]

Rules apply unless a card says otherwise.

[Konrad Klar]

I think that text:

"Instead of a minor item you are allowed to play from your hand at a Border‐hold [ ], Free‐hold [ ], or Haven [ ],
you may play an item from under Armory."

would allow to play hoard items at sites that do not contain a hoard.


Actual text is:

"When you otherwise would be allowed to play a minor item from your hand at a Border‐hold [ ], Free‐hold [ ], or Haven [ ],
you may play an item from under Armory instead."

[Konrad Klar]

1.
In complex systems it is to expect that some elements will meet other elements and will create unusual interaction.

Parsimony of Seclusion and Dragon factions.
Peculiarity of Crown of Flowers that allows to discard (along with the card) other cards, otherwise hard or impossible to discard.
Carambor and Healing of Nimrodel.
Here, There, or Yonder, Under-deeps, and ally normally not allowed to move to Under-deeps.
(I would add Thrall of the Voice and characters with a race other than a race that normal character would have)* .

There is nothing wrong in searching for such interactions and using them. Necessity of errata does no come from mere fact that some combinations or uses was not planned by authors. But the searching should be done fair. Carambor does not (necessarily) interact with Hall of Fire as he interacts with Healing of Nimrodel (unless according some interpretation of rules his company is at site between its subsequent M/H phases).

2.
To the topic of Armory itself.

Depends on site. Sting cannot be played from Armory it said item is in play. There are still checks. Rebuild the town can allow hoard minor items. Good way to keep items away from opponent, emerald of doriath, thrors map.

I am not sure what exactly you are speaking about, but you have mentioned unique minor items.
I think that situation when Sting is under Armory and its other copy is in play at the same time would happen only if Sting under Armory would not be considered in play even for purposes of uniqueness.
Stored cards are considered as not in play except for purposes of uniqueness. So this situation would happen only if cards stored under Armory and cards placed from hand under Armory would be treated differently.

*) ROC recently decided otherwise but I do not think that Thrall of the Voice supersedes "You may not play Orc and Troll characters until you have played the appropriate card (e.g., Bad Company)."
It does not supersede the rule, neither explicitly or implicitly.
Thrall of the Voice is just one of the appropriate cards.

[Konrad Klar]

See also Balrog Rules Summary:

To play an item, the item must either state it is playable at the site, or the site must state that items of that type are playable at the site.

I have overlooked it.
Something for fans of Balrog Rules Summary (I know some of them). No chance for them (and their opponents) of playing a minor item after playing of Rangers of the North at hero Bree.