token of good will

[marcos]

I think i already know the answer of this question, but i don't lose anything asking

can i search for a minion resource on a Fallen wizard deck if playing succefully "token of good will"???

EDIT: i ask another question, can sappling of white tree be played with thing stolen on a FW deck???

[Konrad Klar]

can i search for a minion resource on a Fallen wizard deck if playing succefully "token of good will"???

Yes. It does not target the item (you do not specify at declaration on which resource in deck/pile Token of Good Will is played). It also does not affect that resource. It merely creates action that allows searching for resource card and putting it on hand.
Interpreting manipulations on cards in deck or pile as effects that affects that cards would result in situation where the Pallando player playing Eyes of Mandos cannot choose revealed minion resource and also cannot bring it to the play deck.
Mechanics of both cards is similar. Both operates on cards (not on hazards/resources/characters). Difference is that Token of Good Will is restricted to resource cards, Eyes of Mandos is not restricted to any type of cards.

can sappling of white tree be played with thing stolen on a FW deck???

I think so. Phrase "(even if the item is not normally playable there)" is absent on cards like Bounty of The Hoard, however Bounty of The Hoard allows to play an item regardless what is normally or currently playable at a site. So if that phrase would mean anything then it would be just overriding playability restrictions written on cards.

[marcos]

thanks!

[Manuel]

While it's easy to guess that Token of Goodwill doesn't target the resource card in your play deck/discard pile at declaration, I find the definition of why does it "affect" or not a bit unclear. Would you say, for example, that mistress Lobelia can grab a minion resource then? There could be a lot of examples that may lead to confussion.

In other words, I know what you mean and looks like the reasoning is correct, but these type of cards would need a general ruling about what is affecting and what not, or it will look too subjetive. Perhaps that ruling already exists?

[Konrad Klar]

Such ruling does not exist. It is just my point of view. I've tried rationalize it by taking as example Eyes of Mandos. What happens if rule "hero event cannot affect a minion resource" would be aplicated to cards manipulated by Eyes of Mandos? If putting a card on hand would be treated as affecting this card (i.e. forbidden in case of minion resource), why discarding it would be treated differently? What happens if all cards revealed by Eyes of Mandos are minion resources?

[Bandobras Took]

While it's easy to guess that Token of Goodwill doesn't target the resource card in your play deck/discard pile at declaration, I find the definition of why does it "affect" or not a bit unclear. Would you say, for example, that mistress Lobelia can grab a minion resource then? There could be a lot of examples that may lead to confusion.

Of course she can, so long as it's playable at her current site. There's no ruling that forbids her from doing so.

White Hand Rules, Playing and Using Resource, Targeting Site and Resource Cards: change both instances of "resource card may not target/affect" to "resource event card may not target/affect."

I agree with Konrad. No specific entity is chosen when Token is declared. If it targets anything, it is the play deck.

[Konrad Klar]

I agree with Konrad. No specific entity is chosen when Token is declared. If it targets anything, it is the play deck.

Thanks for support, but question was about affecting rather than about targeting of resources by Token of Goodwill.

Mistress Lobelia is a esay case, she is not the hero event.

[Bandobras Took]

I would say that Token hasn't affected the card it finds in the slightest. The card still operates normally during play.

Clear Skies (Long Event that gives +2 to prowess) would not work on the Minion Ally Great Lord of Goblin-Gate because this would be an instance of a Hero Event affecting a Minion Resource.

Rumor of the One, if played by a FW, would not give extra CPs to his Hero Rings, as this would be affecting them, but would to his Minion Rings.

In both of these cases, a resource event actually affects the specific resource.

If I pull, for example, A Nice Place to Hide using Token, it still requires a Scout, the Scout must still tap to cancel a strike, and it's still a short event. To say that bringing a card to your hand is an instance of affecting it is to also say that Dark Tryst, played by a FW, may only be used to draw Minion Resources, which is a nonsensical proposition at best.

[Konrad Klar]

I agree with you except one detail.

Allies can be healed as if they were characters. Otherwise, allies are only considered characters for the purposes of combat and playing skill cards.
Allies count as characters for the purposes of combat, including performing actions in combat that characters do (getting assigned strikes, tapping for +1 to prowess) and for the play of cards that directly affect the attack.

So example with Clear Skies and Great Lord of Goblin-Gate is a bit inaccurate.

[Bandobras Took]

We may need to split this off into a separate topic, but:

I would say that Allies are characters for the purposes of combat. Not for the purposes of Clear Skies. In other words, a Minion Warrior Ally might be able to use Risky Blow because this is a skill card. The same Minion Warrior Ally could benefit from Cloudless Day (strike assignment) because this card affects the attack. But Clear Skies is clearly affecting a Minion Resource, even if such a Minion Resource is considered a character for the purposes of combat.

[Konrad Klar]

Oh no...
Even if ally counts as character for purposes combat and playing skill cards, it still remains resource and ally with all its limitations (e.g. items of characters eliminated by bc cannot be transfered to allies, allies does not make cc, even if strike or attack call for cc, corruption cards cannot be played on ally).
So minion warrior ally can use the Bold Thrust, but not the Risky Blow. Minion allies are not affected by Alert The Folk, but are affected by Driven As By A Madness (or Kindling of The Spirit, because limitations concerning affecting and targeting resources of opposite alignment does not apply to spells and magic).

Clear Skies effect does not exist only for purposes and time of attack, so is not applied to allies.
Cloudless Day does not affect characters or allies at all, only strike assignment.

[Bandobras Took]

Allies are considered characters for the purposes of playing skill cards, so Risky Blow is useable unless the ally in question is an Orc or Troll.

[Konrad Klar]

So, items of characters eliminated by bc can be transfered to allies, allies makes cc, if strike or attack call for cc, corruption cards playable during strike sequence can be played on ally.

Because allies count as characters for the purposes of combat.

Ok?

[Bandobras Took]

Otherwise, allies are only considered characters for the purposes of combat and playing skill cards.

Warrior Only.

Risky Blow is a skill card. Therefore, unless the ally is Orc or Troll (Orcs and Trolls controlled by FW cannot use Hero Resources), the ally is considered a character for the purpose of playing the skill card (and may therefore use both hero and minion resources -- this is clear from the White Hand rules). In this case, the rule about allies being able to use skill cards supersedes (in my opinion) the rule about resource events targetting/affecting opposing alignment resources.

This is because the the targetting/affecting rule is general, while the ally rule is far more specific.

[Konrad Klar]

Hah...

So by this logic untapped Wondrous Maps (used as site) is returned to Location Deck (fact, that it is resource is lightweight).