Common Rules Deviations in Spain

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zarathustra
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Common Rules Deviations in Spain

Post by zarathustra » Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:01 pm

Manuel wrote:So, after having compiled some of the stuff that causes confussion, here is the list of what makes the spanish community go crazy. I have opened a post in the spanish forum 2 weeks ago asking people to comment which rules use to cause confussion in their communities, and this is what I got so far; of course, there was a lot of simple rules questions that weren't understood only by individuals, but I thought they didn't make the cut for this selection because they were easy to answer by me or any other spanish player.

Perhaps I can come up with some more deviations in the future.


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by request of Council of Elrond's Chairman :D


1st Playing resources with a character in a company that is outside of the company whose M/H phase is being played. Best example of this would be playing MT/VoM with a sage in a different company.

For this so common deviation, I use to ask people to tell me where in the rules does it say you can't do that. In the CRF it's only clarified that you can play it during site phase with a character in a different company; if it's allowed to be played also during M/H phase, then perhaps that should be clarified too. As a side question, I assume the CRF entry also implies that you can do it with a sage in a diff company even if he didn't enter in his site this site phase, am I right?
1st: You're right that the best response to this question is simply to say, "Well, it doesnt say anywhere that I can't play Marvels Told with a sage in a different company." The question of the 'passive' site phase for the squatting sage has a very tedious and dubious answers, so I'd prefer not to discuss it without doing an hour of research first... and I don't have an hour to DO research right now, unfortunately. Sorry!
2nd Playing cards in response to another cards. Which cards can be in a chain of effects and which cards can only be at the start of the chain or simply cannot be. When do these cards effect apply. Difference between cost and effect (not sure if this is the vocabulary you use for ME CCG, but for me it works fine to understand this stuff) For example, why can you discard your daelomin at home in response to my MT to increase hazard limit before MT is resolved, but why can't I use MT in response to your Daelomin at Home being discarded before it is resolved.

This kind of stuff causes lots of confussion, because each carded is worded differently and not all of them are worded in a mean way. Of course, spanish translation helps a lot ;)
2nd: Basically, the answer is: If part of the text of a card is the cost of the card, then it has to be done at declaration. A good example is Concealment: you must tap the scout in order to play Concealment, not after you play it. In general, it's always possible to respond (in some way) to an action your opponent takes. There are restrictions, however. The hazard player can never respond with a card that (potentially) initiates an attack (e.g., a creature, an ahunt, Mordor in Arms, Tidings of Bold Spies); he also can never respond with a card that is a source of corruption (but he can respond with, e.g., a card that forces a corruption check).

Timing is a slightly different, though related, issue. The basic rule here is abbreviated LIFO, which stands for "Last In = First Out". In other words, the last card or action declared in a chain is the first to resolve. This, combined with the rule about cost above, is what makes it impossible to stop Daelomin@Home. There are two possible chains here:

(1) Declare discard of Daelomin@Home (this is simultaneous with discarding D@H); opponent attempts to respond with Marvels Told, but D@H is no longer on the table, and is thus not a valid target.
(2) Marvels Told targets D@H; in response, discard of D@H. Since the discard of D@H was the LAST declared hazard, it resolves FIRST. MT tries to resolve, but its target no longer exists. Therefore, it fizzles.

3rd Lots of players assume that reconciling your hand to your normal hand size at the end of turn phase is the last thing you can do during your turn -> which means no smoke rings, ACM/WHCtK etc after reconciling.
I have redirected them several times to the Turn Sequence Rulings, where it says you can actually do that, but that keeps causing confussion :( mainly due to players wanting to keep the rules they played back in the 90s, and also due to an old Newsletter that was published back in the first years of the game (its name was "El Concilio") This newsletter used to make "official" aclarations about some rulings and -don't know why- they used to be wrong in some cases, or perhaps they are simply out of date at the moment. The thing is that some people still refers to this newsletter when trying to solve rules questions... I am doing my best to make people understand that the newsletter is fine for being a "relic" or an "interesting reading of the old times", but in no way the place to look for rules. I imagine there's not much we can do except insisting in this fact, but perhaps you have a better idea than me :D
3rd: You're right -- not much more to be said here. Repetion might eventually convince people.

4rd Dragon Ahunt Manifestations. When has a company to face them, who decides in which order do they attack (in case of multiple ahunts) and in which region is that attack keyed. Could the given attack be detainment in case of being keyed to a Dark Domain?
4th: Ahunts are not keyed to any region or region type, so they will never be detainment. Generally speaking, whoever played a card decides where it fits into the order of things when multiple passive conditions are triggered at once (as, for example, when multiple long-event environment cards are in play). However, if at the start of the mh-phase there are multiple such effects, the resource player decides which order they take. That means that the resource player could choose which ahunt to face first.
5th Tournament 2-deck policy. If players can bring two decks, in which cases are they allowed to choose one or the other.

I know this is explained in the Tournament Policy, but people still tends to not understand completely (as you could see in Worlds)

5th: There really isn't an answer to this, since it depends on the tournament organizer. However, traditionally, a player is allowed to use one pair of decks PER DAY. In other words, on Friday you could play hero decks (one vs minion, one vs hero); on Saturday you could play minion (one vs minion, one vs hero); and on Sunday you could play FW (one vs minion, one vs hero). Or you could stick with the same deck the whole time. If you're talking about choosing BETWEEN decks on a given day of the tournament, then the answer is that there's no discretion for the player. He has to bring 2 decks each day: one he ALWAYS plays against hero opponents; the other he ALWAYS plays against minion opponents. At the start of the day, he must also decide which of those two decks he will use against fallen wizard opponents. He cannot use one of them vs. fallen gandalf and another vs. fallen alatar. (Also, the Balrog is just another ringwraith, so The Lidless Eye and Sauron cannot be played against him.)
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Khamul the Easterling
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Re: Common Rules Deviations in Spain

Post by Khamul the Easterling » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:15 pm

zarathustra wrote:
4th: Ahunts are not keyed to any region or region type, so they will never be detainment. Generally speaking, whoever played a card decides where it fits into the order of things when multiple passive conditions are triggered at once (as, for example, when multiple long-event environment cards are in play). However, if at the start of the mh-phase there are multiple such effects, the resource player decides which order they take. That means that the resource player could choose which ahunt to face first.
Is this contradictory to the URD stating (p. 29, section F. Movement/Hazad Phase) that
If, at the start of a player's movement/hazard phase, there are multiple effects in play such that their net effect depends on the order they are applied, the player who is currently not taking his turn (i.e., the hazard player) decides the order in which they are to be applied. Once this interpretation is established, all further actions are applied in the order they are resolved for the rest of the turn. (CRF)
?

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Bandobras Took
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Re: Common Rules Deviations in Spain

Post by Bandobras Took » Tue Mar 08, 2016 12:33 am

The thread title suggests that this is a rules deviation in Spain.
Remember, NetRep rulings are official. This does not necessarily mean they are correct.

You probably aren't playing Fallen Wizards correctly. This prompted the backlash erratum that I will link to as soon as I notice it is officially posted. :)

Jose-san
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Re: Common Rules Deviations in Spain

Post by Jose-san » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:29 am

Fortunately, these rules deviations are no longer common in Spain :)

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the Jabberwock
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Re: Common Rules Deviations in Spain

Post by the Jabberwock » Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:14 am

Jose-san wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:29 am
Fortunately, these rules deviations are no longer common in Spain :)
That's nice to hear! I am removing the "sticky" from this thread. Thanks.

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