Middle Earth : The Rewrite

henrikbe · Tue Aug 30, 2016 1:05 pm

Ehm, yes, you are right. The cardnameRW.jpg files were there all the time...

Thank you!

henrikbe · Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:54 pm

I've read through all the cards in METW, METD and MEDM, and have to say I am very impressed. This is great work! I'm planning to print a few copies of these cards, and glue them onto my old cards (or just stick them into the sleeves, whatever works best).

I have some questions and/or comments regarding some of the card texts:

Akhorahil: Can you do the lowering of the body just before a body check is made (that is, right after a successful strike)?

Assassin: The tap symbol is not used very often. Maybe it would be better to just say "tap".

Call of the Sea: This card seems a bit weak? But maybe it's just me rarely using the sea regions.

Cracks of Doom, Gollum's Fate: You state in the rules that the One Ring has to be moved to Mount Doom in order to win. Maybe it would be better to have that rule on these two cards instead, or in addition? Since usually, text on the cards supersedes text in the rules, I would interpret the text of Cracks of Doom to supersede the requirement to move the Ring as written in the rules (since this requirement is not a condition on the Cracks card, and the card says you win if you fulfill its conditions).

Daelomin: Attacker no longer assigns all strikes. Was this intentional?

Drowning Seas (and probably many other cards with an "Or" in them): If Doors is in play, who chooses what alternative to use? The hazards player? The resource player? Or is always the second option used, when Doors is in play?

Elven Cloak: Can be duplicated?

Elf Song: Is it possible to abuse this card to play characters you cannot control with DI/GI during org phase, since you cannot return them to hand?

Great Road: Is the special movement optional?

Horn of Anor: And => an

Lure of Expedience: "takes control of an item" - does this include transfer of an item from one character to another?

Morannon: Is Udun considered to be adjacent to Dagorlad when moving to/from Morannon?

Nenya: Seems really strong. Can it be tapped to pass any corruption check, or just a corruption check by a character in same company?

Orcrist: If borne by a warrior, and not against an orc strike, what is the modification? +3, max 9? Or +4, no max (I guess the latter, but the wording is somewhat ambigous).

Palantir of Amon Sul: A bit unfortunate newline just before MP symbol

Palantir of Annuminas: "playable on a sage", what does that mean? Orcrist is playable on a sage (since it's playable on a character). Nenya is playable on a sage (since Galadriel is sage)... Maybe better to write something like "a card which mentions explicitly that it can be played on a sage"?

Paths of the Dead: The trigger is a bit weird, since the card is played on Aragorn, so Aragorn will always be in the company. If Aragorn is killed or discarded, he will no longer be in the company, but then Paths of the Dead will be discarded (first?).

Reforging: Is it never discarded? So it can be used every turn?

Ren the Unclean: I assume your own characters have to make corruption check to? Or not?

Siege: Is discarded when site card leaves play, I suppose? But maybe there's something about that in the rules somewhere.

The Will of Sauron: Is this card never ever discarded? So from now on, all hazard long events become permanent for the rest of the game?

Wizard's Ring: This is now a lesser ring. Does that mean that I can play it on any character after a ring test? It does not require a ring test, but it also does not forbid it (and why else would it be a Lesser ring, and not just a Ring?).

Wizard's River Horses: It discards your own Nazgul too, right?

From the Pits of Angband: Unique Dragon Manifestaion is the same as Multiple Dragon Manifistation, right? That was a bit confusing. Same for Parsimony of Seclusion.

Isle of the Ulond: I noted you changed Anfalas from Wilderness to Borderland. Isle of the Ulond still treats it as wilderness in its site path.

Returned Exiles: "Dwarf controlling King Under the Mountain" sounds a bit like dwarf having the King as his follower (e.g. play KUtM on Thorin, and place Thorin under some other dwarf's DI). But I suppose that's not what is intended?

Staff Asunder: Can this card be duplicated against an attack? The Staff is not discarded until after the attack, so it would be time to play three Asunders before the attack is resolved.

Ancient Stair: Can you play this card on a company, move it to a non-underdeeps site, and keep the card (and original site) off to the side for a number of turns? And then, later in the game, move the company to the underdeeps, and then use the special movement back to the original site?

Bring our Curses Home: "Off to the side with this card" - but this card is on a character, not "off to the side"...

Durin's Bane: Not playable at Moria (since Moria doen't list Under-gates as adjacent). Is this intentional?

Out of the Black Sky: Does your opponent get MPs if he defeats the Nazgul? Even if it's his own Nazgul?

Scimitars of Steel, Helms of Iron: Does placing a creature with the card count as one against the hazard limit?

Spells of the Barrow Wight: "check check" - remove one "check".

Stirring Bones: Did you intend to replace the artwork with Chill Douser?

The Hunt: Is the attack keyed to a site? For example, what happens if you name Abductor, and the attack is successful? Where is Alatar taken prisoner?

Bandobras Took · Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:08 pm

Thank you for the feedback; I'll get to work compiling a list of answers.

Bandobras Took · Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:24 pm

henrikbe wrote:I've read through all the cards in METW, METD and MEDM, and have to say I am very impressed. This is great work! I'm planning to print a few copies of these cards, and glue them onto my old cards (or just stick them into the sleeves, whatever works best).

I have some questions and/or comments regarding some of the card texts:

Akhorahil: Can you do the lowering of the body just before a body check is made (that is, right after a successful strike)?

Yes, this is expressly allowed for in the rules document under body checks.

Assassin: The tap symbol is not used very often. Maybe it would be better to just say "tap".

I'll hopefully be able to edit the cards soon.

Call of the Sea: This card seems a bit weak? But maybe it's just me rarely using the sea regions.

No more so than most company splitters, but hero coastal is a thing.

Cracks of Doom, Gollum's Fate: You state in the rules that the One Ring has to be moved to Mount Doom in order to win. Maybe it would be better to have that rule on these two cards instead, or in addition? Since usually, text on the cards supersedes text in the rules, I would interpret the text of Cracks of Doom to supersede the requirement to move the Ring as written in the rules (since this requirement is not a condition on the Cracks card, and the card says you win if you fulfill its conditions).

Good point.

Daelomin: Attacker no longer assigns all strikes. Was this intentional?

No.

Drowning Seas (and probably many other cards with an "Or" in them): If Doors is in play, who chooses what alternative to use? The hazards player? The resource player? Or is always the second option used, when Doors is in play?

Ors are always at the card player's option; I'll make sure to spell that out in the rules.

Elven Cloak: Can be duplicated?

If you really want to, why not?

Elf Song: Is it possible to abuse this card to play characters you cannot control with DI/GI during org phase, since you cannot return them to hand?

Yes, it retains this functionality, and allows it for all players.

Great Road: Is the special movement optional?

No.

Horn of Anor: And => an

Will hopefully get fixed without introducing new typos in the wake.

Lure of Expedience: "takes control of an item" - does this include transfer of an item from one character to another?

Yes.

Morannon: Is Udun considered to be adjacent to Dagorlad when moving to/from Morannon?

The card text will be updated to state that the movement is possible.

Nenya: Seems really strong. Can it be tapped to pass any corruption check, or just a corruption check by a character in same company?

It may be powerful, but the tradeoff from the original version is making the card unique. That's something playtesting would have to tell.

Orcrist: If borne by a warrior, and not against an orc strike, what is the modification? +3, max 9? Or +4, no max (I guess the latter, but the wording is somewhat ambigous).

It is the latter; I'll work to clarify the wording.

Palantir of Amon Sul: A bit unfortunate newline just before MP symbol

MSE text formatting irks me to no end. I'll see what I can do.

Palantir of Annuminas: "playable on a sage", what does that mean? Orcrist is playable on a sage (since it's playable on a character). Nenya is playable on a sage (since Galadriel is sage)... Maybe better to write something like "a card which mentions explicitly that it can be played on a sage"?

Will clarify.

Paths of the Dead: The trigger is a bit weird, since the card is played on Aragorn, so Aragorn will always be in the company. If Aragorn is killed or discarded, he will no longer be in the company, but then Paths of the Dead will be discarded (first?).

Good point; I'll change it to playable on his company.

Reforging: Is it never discarded? So it can be used every turn?

Hmm . . . I'd actually be worried more about untappers allowing it to be used multiple times in one turn. I'll think about this one.

Ren the Unclean: I assume your own characters have to make corruption check to? Or not?

Yes, all means all.

Siege: Is discarded when site card leaves play, I suppose? But maybe there's something about that in the rules somewhere.

That's the assumption; I'll look over the rules and see if this is specified.

The Will of Sauron: Is this card never ever discarded? So from now on, all hazard long events become permanent for the rest of the game?

Well, barring things such as the Cock Crowing or Palantir of Osgiliath, sure. Both sides can take advantage of it, provided they use long events.

Wizard's Ring: This is now a lesser ring. Does that mean that I can play it on any character after a ring test? It does not require a ring test, but it also does not forbid it (and why else would it be a Lesser ring, and not just a Ring?).

Ugh, wording loophole. It was meant to only be playable on an avatar, but yes, possible after testing a gold ring.

Wizard's River Horses: It discards your own Nazgul too, right?

Yes, all is all.

From the Pits of Angband: Unique Dragon Manifestaion is the same as Multiple Dragon Manifistation, right? That was a bit confusing. Same for Parsimony of Seclusion.

Hmmm . . . the event manifestations could fall through the cracks; I'll have to add Dragon up where one normally finds a creature type. Ideally, if one finds Unique, Dragon, and Manifestation on a card, it qualifies.

Isle of the Ulond: I noted you changed Anfalas from Wilderness to Borderland. Isle of the Ulond still treats it as wilderness in its site path.

Will update.

Returned Exiles: "Dwarf controlling King Under the Mountain" sounds a bit like dwarf having the King as his follower (e.g. play KUtM on Thorin, and place Thorin under some other dwarf's DI). But I suppose that's not what is intended?

Will change to "bearing," which should reflect the intent better.

Staff Asunder: Can this card be duplicated against an attack? The Staff is not discarded until after the attack, so it would be time to play three Asunders before the attack is resolved.

Nice catch; will update.

Ancient Stair: Can you play this card on a company, move it to a non-underdeeps site, and keep the card (and original site) off to the side for a number of turns? And then, later in the game, move the company to the underdeeps, and then use the special movement back to the original site?

The card does allow this. It does mean your opponent is going to get an awful lot of turns of double draw . . .

Bring our Curses Home: "Off to the side with this card" - but this card is on a character, not "off to the side"...

Would "off to the side using this card as a host" work? Hosts are not off to the side themselves.

Durin's Bane: Not playable at Moria (since Moria doen't list Under-gates as adjacent). Is this intentional?

Yes. Balrog of Moria represents the Balrog's presence at Moria. Durin's Bane is an anti-Underdeeps creature.

Out of the Black Sky: Does your opponent get MPs if he defeats the Nazgul? Even if it's his own Nazgul?

Yes . . . ish. You receive half the MPs if you defeat your own hazard, however it happens.

Scimitars of Steel, Helms of Iron: Does placing a creature with the card count as one against the hazard limit?

No, as you are not playing a hazard.

Spells of the Barrow Wight: "check check" - remove one "check".

Will do.

Stirring Bones: Did you intend to replace the artwork with Chill Douser?

No. I have absolutely no idea how that happened.

The Hunt: Is the attack keyed to a site? For example, what happens if you name Abductor, and the attack is successful? Where is Alatar taken prisoner?

The creature is not keyed to anything. This does create a potential problem with Abductor; I'll update the wording.

Thanks for the tremendous feedback!

Logain · Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:01 am

I like your rewrite.

Some ideas i had, i'dl like your thoughts on those :
- Make Avatar a unique starting character. Makes game more dynamic, no luck involved in drawing him, game more strategy oriented. Needs adding avatars in the character draft of course.
- Make character draft smoother in rolling the dice to see who begins, and each player plays a character at a time (no more simultaneaous).
- Make counting points a secondary aspect of the game, giving the possibility to players to win the game through resolving a quest (like the ring win conditions). For example in tournaments change scoring to 6-0 if one succeeds, 4-2 if points are used.
- Allow Ringwraith Avatars to move (needing DoN to move to border holds and free holds) as to me the fact they aren't allowed to move is the main reason of the minion difficulties (elf lord being another, make it unique).
- Make Leader a skill like Warrior & co.
- Make Wizard / Shadow-Magic / Spirit-Magic / Sorcery a skill.
- Reduce kill points importance to get players to use creatures more.

Thorsten the Traveller · Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:53 am

I like some of these ideas! as they do not require a total rewrite of cards however, you might also want to post them here?

Bandobras Took · Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:10 pm

Logain wrote:I like your rewrite.

Some ideas i had, i'dl like your thoughts on those :
- Make Avatar a unique starting character. Makes game more dynamic, no luck involved in drawing him, game more strategy oriented. Needs adding avatars in the character draft of course.

I was under the impression that this was already an ICE optional rule. It's worth considering, given that rewrite hampers some of the more extreme forms of card draw, but I'll have to think about it.

- Make character draft smoother in rolling the dice to see who begins, and each player plays a character at a time (no more simultaneaous).

This I would be against. The draft is part of outplaying your opponent when the same alignment is involved. Also, for example, when both players are doing an Aragorn deck, having him assigned to one player at the start seems a little too harsh. Drawing into the cards you need is a fundamental part of the game, whether that card be a character or a resource.

- Make counting points a secondary aspect of the game, giving the possibility to players to win the game through resolving a quest (like the ring win conditions). For example in tournaments change scoring to 6-0 if one succeeds, 4-2 if points are used.

That is what scenario games are for. MPs allow for a bit more dynamic back and forth lead changes.

- Allow Ringwraith Avatars to move (needing DoN to move to border holds and free holds) as to me the fact they aren't allowed to move is the main reason of the minion difficulties (elf lord being another, make it unique).

The rewrite makes it so mode cards aren't discarded. It also made starter movement safer. Ringwraiths shouldn't be too hampered in this environment. I chose to keep the flavor of RWs requiring just a little more work to get moving, as they are now extremely effective when doing so.

- Make Leader a skill like Warrior & co.
- Make Wizard

I'm not sure what practical effect this would have. Wizard is a race, like Hobbit or Dwarf. Leader is a keyword.

/ Shadow-Magic / Spirit-Magic / Sorcery a skill.

Already done. Though I started to run out of room in the skill slots of some cards because of it.

- Reduce kill points importance to get players to use creatures more.

This would do a lot to neuter Fallen Alatar. I instead chose to give more creatures a body value to encourage their use. I also added a few more body-reducing resources for Warriors to heighten their importance.

telengard · Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:12 pm

Thanks for your efforts on this! Before I get to printing, where do I find the most up to date rules/cards? Is it the google doc, gccg's svn?

Bandobras Took · Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:40 am

Your best bet is with svn, yes. I've unfortunately become more and more swamped with real life issues (mainly children with real-life issues), so it may be an extremely long while before I can do more updates.

telengard · Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:10 pm

Bandobras Took wrote:Your best bet is with svn, yes. I've unfortunately become more and more swamped with real life issues (mainly children with real-life issues), so it may be an extremely long while before I can do more updates.

I'm sorry to hear that. Having young kids myself, I'm somehow fortunate at the moment to have a little free time (hence trying out your rules/cards). Is this something I could help you out with (I'm comfortable with svn and mse)? Are the mse-set files available somewhere, I did not see them in svn? Before printing some cards to play with I could fix up the few small spelling errors I've found, etc.

Regardless, thanks for all your hard work, I have to imagine it was a lot of effort to do the rules and update all of those cards.

Bandobras Took · Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:50 pm

I couldn't upload them here, so I'm committing my latest MSE files and .xmls to a new Rewrite directory in the "development" folder on SVN.

Hopefully I didn't screw it up.

Keep in mind that any changes made to the cards in MSE need to also be made to the .xmls.

The manufacturer is not responsible for damages caused by unauthorized use of this product. Keep out of reach of small children. Void where prohibited. No cash value. Reward subject to local law. Do not get wet. Do not expose to sunlight. Do not feed after midnight. All times Mountain West. May cause high blood pressure. Side effects include Curly Fries and a loaded baked potato.

Bandobras Took · Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:51 pm

Oh, and make sure that cards are exported with "xxxxxxxxRW" name; it's how they distinguish between different projects.

telengard · Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:09 pm

Thanks, I'll be careful... although I do enjoy baked potatoes.

Germanico · Wed May 13, 2020 11:06 am

Hi!
Sorry to revive this thread...
But i am doing a kind of spin off of the game and i stumbled upon this great thread....

It seems to be answering many questions i was making myself in my altered version.

Question is...
Where did everything go?
Is there anywhere i could get the images of the reworked cards?
i already downlodad the xmls for gccg....but
is there anywher i can find the MSE files?

Thanks a lot!!

CDavis7M · Wed May 13, 2020 5:01 pm

Germanico wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 11:06 am Is there anywhere i could get the images of the reworked cards?

I'm not entirely sure but I believe some "rewrite" cards are hosted at https://cardgamegeek.com/games/meccg/cards

Germanico wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 11:06 am But i am doing a kind of spin off of the game and i stumbled upon this great thread....

Are you hoping that existing MECCG plays would play your spinoff game? Are you going to print and distribute the cards?

I feel like most of these "projects", including this Rewrite, failed because it was not easy for people to play updates. But it is also not legally feasible to re-print and distribute the original cards. So any spinoff game would have to lose it's Middle-earth references, and that would not be encouraging for new players. So... we are stuck with the cards we have and a long history of failed projects.

Even in this thread you can see mention of the "Virtual" cards project. This project used the same card names but changed their effects to do completely different things. From what I can tell, no one actually plays with Virtual cards. Maybe at one point they did but it's not evident now. There was also the Unofficial Errata Project (UEP) (or something like that). It proposed minor changes to improve simulation and a bit of balance. This also failed. Likewise, no one plays with these Rewrite cards. There are too many rule changes for people that already know how to play the game. And it's not clear whether the game really is more balanced or not. Sure it's nice to have simplified rules but ICE already provided two different shortened versions of the rules. The Starter Set rules cover 90% of game play in 4 pages and Challenge Deck rules cover 95% of game play in 27 pages.

The one project that has persevered if the Dream Card project: viewforum.php?f=32

The Dream Cards (DC) have had some success. But it's not like all MECCG players play with them. It's hard to guess why this project succeeded when other projects failed. But the cards are completely new and they fit into the existing game. They have also been made easily available for home-printing and a portion of them have been professionally printed. The Dream Cards have a Players Guide complete with lore and strategy and sample decks. It just feels like a complete project. It feels like a regular expansion set.

Good luck with your project. I'd love to see the spinoff.