Draft of CoE Digest #201 Q1 - The White Tree + Wizard's Trove - Open until September 24th

[Manuel]

In order to contribute to this thread please follow these rules:

1) The thread will be open until September 24th.
2) There will be a maximum of one reply per forum user, and that reply cannot be edited. We want to actively avoid starting "flame wars", so please speak your peace, let others speak their peace, and that's it.
3) After the review period, the ROC will carefully consider everyone's contributions, revise the draft as appropriate, and then the Digest will be published and official.

Is the “unique” keyword on The White Tree ignored when playing it with Wizard’s Trove?

There is a significant list of previous CoE digests that contradict ICE digests (thanks CDavis7M for help with identifying these issues). CoE #43 ruled that the “unique” keyword on The White Tree is not ignored when playing it with Wizard’s Trove, although no reason is presented:

QUERY 16

If a Fallen-wizard player plays The White Tree with Wizard's Trove, and the text of The White Tree is ignored, does that mean another player can play The White Tree? Is the “Unique” keyword ignored on The White Tree if Wizard's Trove is used to play it?

No.

However, Wizard’s Trove’s text states that The White Tree’s text is ignored, which would include the “unique” keyword. And ICE #119 explicitly ruled so:

12-08-1998 NetRep: Craig Ichabod O'Brien Source

Wizard's Trove states: “ignore card text” when refering to The White Tree. So, for Fallen-wizards, The White Tree is not unique, since the keyword “unique” is part of the card text. Which of the following three examples are legal:

1. A FW player has The White Tree in play, another FW player plays one himself.

2. A FW player has The White Tree in play, a Hero-player plays one himself.

3. A Hero-player has The White Tree in play, a FW player plays one himself.

All three, assuming the FW is playing The White Tree with Wizard’s Trove in all three cases.

As this committee sees no reason to overrule Ichabod’s ruling on this issue, we have decided to revert the previous CoE ruling and instead adhere to Ichabod’s more obvious reading, which is that The White Tree’s text is ignored completely when playing it along with Wizard’s Trove (including the “unique” keyword).

Note that this ruling overturns CoE Digest #43 Q16 and CoE Digest #65 Q5.

[Konrad Klar]

UNIQUE & “MAY NOT BE DUPLICATED” CARDS
If a card states that it is “unique” or that it “may not be duplicated,” only one such card (or its effects) may be in play at a time. The first card played takes precedence (influence checks may change this). This restriction applies to all cards in play, i.e., both yours and your opponent’s.

Even if a copy of card in play is not unique, a copy in hand/other source still may be unique.
Non-unique The White Tree in play prevents a playing of other unique copy of The White Tree.

[vailimo]

UNIQUE & “MAY NOT BE DUPLICATED” CARDS
If a card states that it is “unique” or that it “may not be duplicated,” only one such card (or its effects) may be in play at a time. The first card played takes precedence (influence checks may change this). This restriction applies to all cards in play, i.e., both yours and your opponent’s.

Even if a copy of card in play is not unique, a copy in hand/other source still may be unique.
Non-unique The White Tree in play prevents a playing of other unique copy of The White Tree.

Rules on unique doesn't say itself anything about preventing "playing" the unique card, but about having multiple of those cards stated as unique in play at the same time.

Normally you will not be able to declare to play a unique card when another copy is in play, because he can't be in play alongside it. And you can't declare to play a card without effect apart from discard it as it won't be able to be in play.

But, if the wizards trove is affecting one of the cards, there would not be more than one such a card (a card stating it is unique) in play at the same time. Because at the time the card affected by wizards trove enters play it will be non-unique.

[Zakath]

I support the interpretation offered here - the Unique keyword should be ignored when the White Tree is played via Wizard's Trove.

Saplings aren't unique, so why couldn't multiple saplings grow into multiple fully-fledged White Trees? But for thematic reasons, one thing I would personally like to see is some kind of errata that at least stops multiple players from all playing the White Tree at the same site. This is a game where design decisions are sometimes made on those grounds, and it feels kind of ridiculous that if Gandalf turns Minas Tirith into a Wizardhaven and grows the White Tree there using Wizard's Trove, some other player could waltz in and play the White Tree *again.*

So I would cheekily suggest something like this as errata to Wizard's Trove:

Code: Select all

You may play [i]The White Tree[/i] at one of your Wizardhavens if [i]Sapling of the White Tree[/i] is stored there and [i]The White Tree[/i] is not already in play there. [...] Ignore the text of [i]The White Tree[/i]. No other player can play [i]The White Tree[/i] at any version of the Wizardhaven.

It's a pretty unusual case, of course, so I wouldn't exactly be devastated if you all did nothing about it.

[Manuel]

Thanks everyone for your contributions.

The ROC will study them carefully and come up with a final digest soon.