Draft of CoE Digest #205 Q1 - When is the hazard limit set - Open until June 26th

[Manuel]

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1) The thread will be open until June 26th.
2) There will be a maximum of one reply per forum user, and that reply cannot be edited. We want to actively avoid starting "flame wars", so please speak your peace, let others speak their peace, and that's it.
3) After the review period, the RC will carefully consider everyone's contributions, revise the draft as appropriate, and then the Digest will be published and official.

When is the hazard limit determined for each company?

The hazard limit is determined for each company at the beginning of the movement/hazard phase, which is reaffirmed throughout the various ICE rulebooks. However, some players have been confused by an inconsistency in The Balrog/Challenge Decks Rules Summary, which states that the hazard limit “is set at the end of the organization phase.”

As evidence for the former, here are various citations with the relevant parts highlights:

The Lidless Eye Rulesbook – Player Turn Summary (page 93):

… The hazard limit is determined for each company at the beginning of the movement/hazard phase (i.e., it remains fixed).”

The Lidless Eye Rulesbook – The Hazard Limit (page 45):

Clarification: For the purposes of calculating hazard limits, each company’s size is determined for each company at the beginning of the movement/hazard phase (e.g., it remains fixed) …

The Dragons Insert – Hazard Limit Clarification:

The base hazard limit is determined (i.e., set) simultaneously at the moment a company reveals its new site or otherwise announces it is beginning its movement/hazard phase …

This committee has resolved that the hazard limit is determined for each company at the beginning of the movement/hazard phase for the following reasons:

1. As the Balrog/Challenge Decks version is merely a summary of the rules, there is insufficient evidence that it should be interpreted as an update to the rules.

2. Several Ruling Digests are based on the rule of "at the beginning of the movement/hazard phase", such as ICE Other Queries [Q25], CoE #106 [Q4], and CoE #112 [Q3], while none refer to the end of the organization phase. To uphold the Balrog/Challenge Deck wording would invalidate these ruling digests.

3. The traditional way of playing the game, as per the rules, involves calculating the limit at the beginning of the movement/hazard phase. Implementing a significant change to widespread historical precedent would require a strong justification.

Consequently, a new CRF entry will be added:

CRF – Rulings By Term – Challenge Decks

Rules Erratum: Change «is set at the end of the organization phase» to «is set at the beginning of the movement/hazard phase»

[Theo]

"Set" is not the same phrase as "determined," hence MELE dropping it from its language. The company size (and base hazard limit) is indeed (normally) set by the end of the organization phase, barring Alatar jumping or Ren the Unclean corruption checks failing. So I don't think MEBA was wrong, and is in fact more appropriately worded than this proposal given that the section this appears in is in the Organization phase.

I do support clarifying MEBA's absence of when hazard limit is determined (fixed) for the movement/hazard phase to be at the beginning of that phase. I might propose wording like, "The hazard limit is the number of hazards that may be played on a company during its movement/hazard phase. The hazard limit for a movement/hazard phase is determined at the beginning of that phase (i.e. it remains fixed). The company size will not typically change between the end of the organization phase and this determination." Of course, this is less of a summary...

[Konrad Klar]

"Set" is not the same phrase as "determined," hence MELE dropping it from its language. The company size (and base hazard limit) is indeed (normally) set by the end of the organization phase, barring Alatar jumping or Ren the Unclean corruption checks failing. So I don't think MEBA was wrong, and is in fact more appropriately worded than this proposal given that the section this appears in is in the Organization phase.

I do support clarifying MEBA's absence of when hazard limit is determined (fixed) for the movement/hazard phase to be at the beginning of that phase. I might propose wording like, "The hazard limit is the number of hazards that may be played on a company during its movement/hazard phase. The hazard limit for a movement/hazard phase is determined at the beginning of that phase (i.e. it remains fixed). The company size will not typically change between the end of the organization phase and this determination." Of course, this is less of a summary...

Failed corruption checks may happen also in long-events phase. Cards like A Chance Meeting may also be played in the phase.
Hazard limit is a term that AFIK that does not have any use outside company's M/H phase.
Before a company's M/H phase there are only estimations/prognosis of the company's HL in its next M/H phase.

[Manuel]

Thanks everyone for your contributions. The RC will study them carefully and come up with a final digest soon.