Draft of CoE Digest #205 Q2 - Regiment of Black Crowes - Open until June 26th

[Manuel]

In order to contribute to this thread please follow these rules:

1) The thread will be open until June 26th.
2) There will be a maximum of one reply per forum user, and that reply cannot be edited. We want to actively avoid starting "flame wars", so please speak your peace, let others speak their peace, and that's it.
3) After the review period, the RC will carefully consider everyone's contributions, revise the draft as appropriate, and then the Digest will be published and official.

Can you tap a Regiment of Black Crows to send an Ahunt Dragon to your opponent’s hand? What about a creature attacking from Bring Our Curses Home/Foes Shall Fall?

Here is the text of Regiment of Black Crows for reference:

Playable at a tapped or untapped non-Under-deeps Ruins & Lairs. May not be attacked. Discard this ally if its controlling character is wounded. Tap this ally to cancel a hazard creature attack not keyed to a site and to put the creature's card back into its player's hand. Cannot be duplicated in a given company.

The question about Regiment of Black Crows canceling an Ahunt attack has been addressed in a couple digests:

ICE RULES DIGEST #111
22-07-1998 Author: Craig Ichabod O’Brien

QUERY 9
[…]
6. What effect does tapping Regiment of Black Crows have on an “Ahunt” Dragon attack? Is the “Ahunt” long-event sent back to hand?

Yes.

and

CoE RULINGS DIGEST #122
23-03-2011 Author: Mikko Vihtemäki

QUERY 5
[…]
2. What about “Ahunt” Dragons, then? Are they returned to owner’s hand when Regiment of Black Crows is used to cancel the attack?

Yes.

While it is true that Regiment of Black Crows' text states “put the creature’s card back into its player’s hand” and Ahunt cards are not technically “creature cards”, it is important to note that RoBC’s text doesn’t actually say to return a “creature card” to its players' hand, but rather the “creature’s card”, i.e. the card with the creature attack. This committee therefore concurs with both of the quoted NetReps in determining that the card from which the attack initiates is sent back to its players hand so long as the attack itself is a creature attack, which would be the case for Ahunt dragon attacks (per their text).

In the case of creatures that attack from an off-to-the-side state, like Bring Our Curses Home or Foes Shall Fall, the creature card is sent to the controlling player’s hand (not the host card), as in these cases the creature card would be considered the “creature’s card”. CoE Rulings Digests #55 Q2 upholds this interpretation.

[Theo]

Is your answer to the first question changing something from ICE Digest 111, or overturning another CoE ruling made since then? Or why not simply direct the question asker to ICE Digest 111?

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In the case of creatures that attack from an off-to-the-side state, like Bring Our Curses Home or Foes Shall Fall, the creature card is sent to the controlling player’s hand (not the host card), as in these cases the creature card would be considered the “creature’s card”. CoE Rulings Digests #55 Q2 upholds this interpretation.

I am concerned that the off-to-the-side rules from MEDM are in conflict with your ruling.

Any card placed off to the side absolutely cannot be targeted or otherwise affected by the game except by cards that specifically affect cards placed "off to the side ."

That is, I would think Crows would cancel the attack but be unable to affect the creature's card. And yes, BoCH and FSF say the creature is off to the side, not the creature's card, but ICE said that these cards should affect Ahunts so I would consider the "creature is considered" wording loosely.

[Konrad Klar]

Tap this ally to cancel a hazard creature attack not keyed to a site and to put the creature's card back into its player's hand.

The joint actions* have two targets - a hazard creature attack not keyed to a site AND creature's card.
I think that they may not be declared if there is no creature.

*) I think that they are joint i.e. second is not performed after completion of first.
If they would be executed in sequence then after canceling a hazard creature attack the creature card would be discarded.

If after 1st cc from A Malady Without Healing victim will be eliminated or discarded there will not be bc (cc by shadow-magic user will be performed anyway).
If event discarded by Marvels Told is a corruption card on target sage then cc performed by the sage will be performed in state where there is no the corruption card on target sage.

The actions are not joint, they are executed in sequence.

[Manuel]

Thanks everyone for your contributions. The RC will study them carefully and come up with a final digest soon.