Draft of CoE Digest #208 Q5 - Troll Bros and WHCTK - Open until Dec 16th

[Manuel]

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How do the “Troll Brothers” interact with other allowances and restrictions?

Toni Matas asked:

Hi RoC,

I'm trying to figure out if all of these are legal plays:

During the organization phase I bring one of the Troll brothers to play through We Have Come to Kill in company A. Then, in the same organization phase and by the standard procedure of bringing a character into play (to make things easier let's imagine that under direct influence) I bring another Troll into play not counting for the one character per turn limit in company A as it may be played on the same turn one of its brothers played, by its card's text. Is it legal?

Now imagine that I bring the brother, instead of in the same company A, in a different company. By the text I still think it's legal as the only requirement is a Troll brother being previously played on that same turn... the card doesn't say anything about the need of being in the same site... Is this legal either?

And now imagine that you're playing as Balrog... can you play one Troll brother as the first playable character, then another Troll brother (by its card's text) and then the non-Unique second character the Balrog allows? CoE Weekly Rulings/Clarifications #19 Query 9 says it's legal, but I just want to double check.

(If all of these are legal it means that, playing as Balrog, with 3 WHCtK and the 3 Troll brothers in hand it could be theoretically possible, during organization phase, to play up to 7 characters!!!)

Thanks for your time and congratulations for your work, you're doing a great job!!!

For reference, here is the text for one of the “Troll Brothers”:

BURAT
Warrior/Ranger Troll
Unique. Manifestation of "Bert". May not be included with a starting company. May be played on the same turn Tuma and/or Wuluag is played. Discard on a body check result of 8. +I prowess against Dwarves. Tap Burat to untap Tuma and/or Wuluag if at the same site. If Tuma and/or Wuluag is in his company, Burat's mind is reduced by one.

Given that a Troll Bros' ability allows it to be played before the card’s effects would normally be in play and is simply worded as “May be played on the same turn ____ and/or ____ is played” without any other stipulations or additional actions involved, this committee’s assertion is that the Troll Bros’ ability is merely modifying the existing rule of normally playing one character per turn during the organization phase, similar to how Bad Company modifies the rule that Fallen-wizards can’t normally play Orc or Troll characters, but not providing an allowance for an entirely new action to play a Troll Bro at any point during the player’s turn.

Now, the answers:

1. Yes, you could play an additional Troll Bro after a first one was played with We Have Come to Kill, and doing so wouldn’t count as the “one” character per organization phase, because the normal allowance to play one character per organization phase is overridden by the Troll Bro’s text. However, all other restriction on playing characters still apply (similar to a card like Bad Company): the Troll Bro would need to be played at a haven or home site, dependent on your avatar being in play, with enough GI/DI, etc.

2. Yes, that’s legal. The card text doesn’t require them to be played at the same site. Note that their text does clearly state that they need to be at the same site to use their untap abilities and to qualify for the mind reduction. But their text doesn’t mention anything about needing to be played at the same site, so yes, technically you could play all three of them in different sites of Middle-earth (but remember, the other restrictions for playing characters still apply).

3. Yes, that would be legal, as well. Balrog players are provided an additional allowance to play a non-unique character with mind three or less, which you haven’t yet initiated by playing the Troll Bro.

[Konrad Klar]

1. Yes, you could play an additional Troll Bro after a first one was played with We Have Come to Kill, and doing so wouldn’t count as the “one” character per organization phase, because the normal allowance to play one character per organization phase is overridden by the Troll Bro’s text.

I think that not exactly.
Imagine that Burat has been played in result of We Have Come to Kill in untap phase. If in organization phase Tuma is played, then Tuma counts as one character per turn per organization phase that may be played/discarded just like any other character.
I think that internally it works in following way: Playing of Burat, Tuma and/or Wuluag each counts as the same one against limit of one character per turn per organization phase that may be played/discarded.
And this ability is not applicable if Burat, Tuma and/or Wuluag is played in other way (in result of We Have Come to Kill, A Chance Meeting, after successful influence attempt).

[SuperNovice]

No disagreements. Just providing reference to a prior ruling to backup the position that you can play 1, 2, or all 3 in the same turn.

ICE Rules Digest #23 from Ichabod:

2. If that is the case, you need minimum 8 GI free. But that’s not all. You can only play one character per site per turn... so you’d have to bring them out at different sites. Am i taking this phrase wrong, or is it really this difficult to play these guys?

First, there is no one characer per site per turn rule. The rule is one character per turn. period. However, the card text on Bûrat, Tûma, and Wûluag overrides that rule.