Printer Studio

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Logain
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Printer Studio

Post by Logain » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:35 pm

There are several ways to print cards.

I ordered cards at http://www.printerstudio.com/

Price for 216 cards :
Quantity Price
1-5 $55.20
6-29 $48.30
30-49 $36.10
50-99 $34.50
100-249 $27.95
250-499 $24.40
500+ $17.85

Price for 54 cards :
1-5 $13.80
6-29 $11.50
30-49 $9.60
50-99 $8.55
100-249 $7.05
250-499 $5.80
500+ $4.40

Chose "Cards and Games".
Then "Game Cards".
Then "Personalized Poker Custom Cards (Blank Cards) Playing Cards" - you want 63,5x89mm.
Then
- Card quality. You have to choose (i used Standard)
Standard 300gsm casino quality cardstock aqueous coated (smooth finish)
Premium 310gsm casino quality cardstock plastic coated (linen finish), origin of material from France
Superior 100% plastic PVC cards and thickness of 0.325mm, origin of material from USA
- Size of deck - depending on the number of cards you need.
- Boxes - Shrink wrap as usual.

Then "Personalize it".
Choose what you want to put on card fronts:
Image & Text
Same for all fronts*
Different for all fronts

Color Background & Text
Same message for all fronts*
Different message for all fronts

You then upload your images (min 300dpi) and drag them.

A warning LOW RESOLUTION will be shown for MSE files, but i printed it anyway and it was ok.
The program crops the black border, sizing the rest of the image. I like it, but people seems not to agree.
Dom seems to know how to avoid that.
Kjeld' solution : Also, it's relatively easy to set up a template to extend the black border. Basically, you want a base card image that's 750 x 1050, including the black border. Then extend the image size to 822 x 1122, and fill the new space completely with black. It will look weird -- with a really thick black border -- but when you submit the final 822 x 1122 image (as a .png preferably) to Printer Studio it will print out very nicely.

Kjeld about colours : Also, in my experience the colors tend to come out on the darker side, so you might try brightening the image 10-20% before submitting it.

[spoiler]

Image

Exemple :
Image
[/spoiler]
Before validating you need to tick a box :
Please confirm the following:
Yes, all the images, names, dates and other content added onto to my design are correct and are my original work and I own all copyrights for them or have full authorization to use them.

Kjeld
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Re: Printer Studio

Post by Kjeld » Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:30 pm

I've also used Printer Studio in the past, and it's one of the reasons I was working on creating higher-resolution frames to use in MSE:

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1460&p=25173&hilit=mse#p25173

Also, it's relatively easy to set up a template to extend the black border. Basically, you want a base card image that's 750 x 1050, including the black border. Then extend the image size to 822 x 1122, and fill the new space completely with black. It will look weird -- with a really thick black border -- but when you submit the final 822 x 1122 image (as a .png preferably) to Printer Studio it will print out very nicely.

Also, in my experience the colors tend to come out on the darker side, so you might try brightening the image 10-20% before submitting it.

Logain
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Re: Printer Studio

Post by Logain » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:11 pm

You make very good looking cards !

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Moriquendi
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Re: Printer Studio

Post by Moriquendi » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:15 pm

Just placed an order for some fan made dreamcard prints through printerstudio using the black border poker card option @ 234 card deck.

Looks like they will come out fairly close to the original meccg format cards from the previews, perhaps a bit extra black border. I'll post up results once they arrive.

Total cost: $43.30 for the cards + $13.99 for shipping.
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Thorsten the Traveller
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Re: Printer Studio

Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:56 pm

I've seen printerstudio cards, and since the printing process and cardboard material are different from the original, the trained eye will easily spot that they are not originals. Nevertheless they are quite good proxies.

Since making perfect copies of standard cards is obviously illegal, would it not be an idea to put some icon or other indication on the card that makes sure they are not ICE cards? You never know what people might put on ebay.
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

Kjeld
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Re: Printer Studio

Post by Kjeld » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:12 pm

I would recommend putting a semi-transparent "PROXY" or similar watermark over part of the art image, possibly in the lower corner or something, when printing such cards, to help mitigate the risk that Thorsten points out.

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Mordakai
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Re: Printer Studio

Post by Mordakai » Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:42 am

For me it's simple: removing the (C) 199x Tolkien Enterprises, for may reasons:

- They are immediately spotted as proxies
- They are, of course, not (C) of Tolkien enterprises
- We are not, of course, on 199x, nor had been printed that year
- You can make a very similar proxy to the original without inserting new iconography, and still spottable as proxy
- You don't spoil so beautiful cards with a "PROXY" sign on them

There are other aditional actions that can be performed:
- Removing the "random number" of the cards, as it is useless
- Slight modifications in the art
C'mon, not the Elves of Lindon AGAIN...

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Moriquendi
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Re: Printer Studio

Post by Moriquendi » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:20 pm

The legality of doing this is somewhat of a gray area. I would argue that since I am simply printing copies of cards I already own purely for my personal/educational use (trying to learn how to play the game), my reproduction of these materials falls under "Fair Use" (at least in the US). My actions are in no way harming the owners of the original or current copyright or disrupting the market value of the originals since I have no intention of selling my reproductions.

The fact that the material is for an obscure game that went out of print 20 years ago... I don't think it'll raise too many eyebrows. If I was printing copies of high-value MTG or Sports cards in mass quantities, I think that would raise some suspicion. Printerstudio can always deny my order if they take a moral stand that differs from my interpretation of "Fair Use."

The problem with us recommending what to print on these cards is somewhat irrelevant as I'm pretty sure none of us here are doing this with the intention of selling these cards on eBay to an unsuspecting buyer. If someone set out to do that, they'd ignore all these recommendations anyways.

I plan on keeping these in different colored sleeves and a deck box so they never get mixed in with any of my regular collection.

Some interesting points to read on Copyright and Fair Use:
https://ogc.harvard.edu/pages/copyright-and-fair-use

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the Jabberwock
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Re: Printer Studio

Post by the Jabberwock » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:35 am

Thorsten the Traveller wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:56 pm
I've seen printerstudio cards, and since the printing process and cardboard material are different from the original, the trained eye will easily spot that they are not originals. Nevertheless they are quite good proxies.

Since making perfect copies of standard cards is obviously illegal, would it not be an idea to put some icon or other indication on the card that makes sure they are not ICE cards? You never know what people might put on ebay.
Kjeld wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:12 pm
I would recommend putting a semi-transparent "PROXY" or similar watermark over part of the art image, possibly in the lower corner or something, when printing such cards, to help mitigate the risk that Thorsten points out.
I agree wholeheartedly with these comments, as it would be a disaster for a new player to purchase fake cards from an unscrupulous seller off eBay. After being heartbroken, he would likely quit the game.
Mordakai wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:42 am
- You don't spoil so beautiful cards with a "PROXY" sign on them

There are other aditional actions that can be performed:
- Removing the "random number" of the cards, as it is useless
- Slight modifications in the art
I would argue that if you want the "beautiful" versions, then you should acquire the real cards. I do not agree with making slight modifications such as removing the random number or making slight modifications to the art, because these may not be noticed by a new player. This would be very bad as mentioned above.
Moriquendi wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:20 pm
The problem with us recommending what to print on these cards is somewhat irrelevant as I'm pretty sure none of us here are doing this with the intention of selling these cards on eBay to an unsuspecting buyer. If someone set out to do that, they'd ignore all these recommendations anyways.

I plan on keeping these in different colored sleeves and a deck box so they never get mixed in with any of my regular collection.
It's just a risky/bad idea in general, I think. I agree, if you keep them under lock and key and never let them mix in with your other cards, then no real harm can come from you using them for solitaire learning purposes or placeholders in decks before you replace them prior to games. However, should a mix up ever occur, while unlikely - that could lead to a bad situation.

Kjeld
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Re: Printer Studio

Post by Kjeld » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:22 am

the Jabberwock wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:35 am
It's just a risky/bad idea in general, I think. I agree, if you keep them under lock and key and never let them mix in with your other cards, then no real harm can come from you using them for solitaire learning purposes or placeholders in decks before you replace them prior to games. However, should a mix up ever occur, while unlikely - that could lead to a bad situation.
If whoever you happen to be playing with doesn't care, I don't see any reason why you can't play real games with the proxies. Clearly, if the person does care or you're in a tournament or something with specific rules regarding proxies, then that's a different situation.

Also, if you see these cards in person, they're hard to confuse for the real cards when not sleeved. The card stock is much darker, for example, so they look quite different from the side. And the printing quality isn't the same, either. However, they do look fine in sleeves for the purposes of playing a game. It's the only way that many people will ever be able to play an actual tabletop game with Balrog cards, so I feel OK with this workaround.

That said, I would also be OK if we shutter this thread and keep public discussion about proxy-printing to a bare minimum. No sense risking drawing unwanted attention, or encouraging unscrupulous traders to try and cheat.

EDIT: I think it's fine to keep the original post about printing custom and/or dream cards, though.

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the Jabberwock
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Re: Printer Studio

Post by the Jabberwock » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:03 am

Kjeld wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:22 am
If whoever you happen to be playing with doesn't care, I don't see any reason why you can't play real games with the proxies. Clearly, if the person does care or you're in a tournament or something with specific rules regarding proxies, then that's a different situation.
Good point. I am personally anti-proxy and I request members of the playgroup I host not to use them. I'm sure I inherited this disdain from being a Magic the Gathering enthusiast and seeing all of the damage and destruction that proxies and fake cards have done to that market. I would feel terrible if something similar ever occurred with MECCG. Unfortunately, when money is involved, there are shady sorts out there who are so greedy that they don't care what harm they cause to others in pursuing money. I know that some MECCG playgroups and tournaments have no problem allowing proxies and I respect their position, while disagreeing with it.

Kjeld wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:22 am
Also, if you see these cards in person, they're hard to confuse for the real cards when not sleeved. The card stock is much darker, for example, so they look quite different from the side. And the printing quality isn't the same, either. However, they do look fine in sleeves for the purposes of playing a game. It's the only way that many people will ever be able to play an actual tabletop game with Balrog cards, so I feel OK with this workaround.
Well this is good to hear. If someone purchases or trades for cards, any proxies or fakes they receive should be easily identifiable, even to new players. As for Balrog cards, I don't like the idea that players may never be able to acquire a card they really want to play with, so this is certainly an obstacle. I still feel, however, that the cons of supporting or encouraging the printing of fake cards / proxies far outweigh the pros. Personally, I always thought of hard to acquire cards as a challenge and I didn't mind saving up for them or waiting to get them, which is one of the reasons I like CCGs instead of LCGs, etc. Thankfully, MECCG singles (even the most expensive) are still attainable for most anyone who really wants them if they are patient. I do understand that everyone's situation is different, but saving up $80 to purchase a much anticipated Longbottom Leaf is a whole different universe than a MTG Black Lotus that costs $5,000.

Kjeld wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:22 am
That said, I would also be OK if we shutter this thread and keep public discussion about proxy-printing to a bare minimum. No sense risking drawing unwanted attention, or encouraging unscrupulous traders to try and cheat.

EDIT: I think it's fine to keep the original post about printing custom and/or dream cards, though.
I will give this some further thought. I don't want to jump in and censor/lock threads too hastily, however, this is a legitimate concern and a good point.

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Moriquendi
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Re: Printer Studio

Post by Moriquendi » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:04 pm

the Jabberwock wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:03 am

I am personally anti-proxy and I request members of the playgroup I host not to use them.
I agree with this 100%. I also did competitive MTG through college and proxies/reprints were rampant as access to high quality printers rose in the past 20 years. We even busted a guy who was slightly modifying text (swapping "and" with "or" for example) on his proxies to make combos that were never intended. It was a lot harder to catch back then too because we didn't have all the online resources (card databases) we have now.
Kjeld wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:22 am
It's the only way that many people will ever be able to play an actual tabletop game with certain *hard to obtain* cards...

This is the only reason I'm doing it. I'm very intrigued by the variety of cards, but only owning 1 set + some extras, I don't have the ability to put together a real strategy based on this set. With these, I can at least assemble and do some solo play/draw test to see if my strategies hold water before I go and acquire the cards to make a real deck.
the Jabberwock wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:03 am
I do understand that everyone's situation is different, but saving up $80 to purchase a much anticipated Longbottom Leaf is a whole different universe than a MTG Black Lotus that costs $5,000.
I have a Black Lotus... However, its 6"x9" and came out of a 1996 issue of Scrye magazine. >.<
Kjeld wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:22 am
That said, I would also be OK if we shutter this thread and keep public discussion about proxy-printing to a bare minimum. No sense risking drawing unwanted attention, or encouraging unscrupulous traders to try and cheat.

EDIT: I think it's fine to keep the original post about printing custom and/or dream cards, though.
Unfortunately, I agree this is probably the best way to prevent fake cards from showing up on the market. Maybe we can make a separate private thread (invite only) that goes over best methods, trial and error, etc. with PrinterStudio created cards? I'm quite thankful this information is here, but the current owner of Tolkien material Copyright has enough lawyers at their disposal to squash something like this fairly easily.

I'm going to edit my original post to be more generic and modify the screenshot.

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Re: Printer Studio

Post by CCG Collector » Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:24 pm

I know I'm quite a bit late to this thread, but why not use gold borders or something similar on proxy cards? Magic uses that to indicate non-legal cards - silver for "Un-" sets, and gold for world championship reprint decks. Obviously grey borders are already in use for the challenge decks and the Gandalf starter deck, and white borders are used in the Saruman starter deck, but gold would be both obvious and unobtrusive, and I think it would look quite good with the card backgrounds and general style. And after quite an experience building a large Arda deck with actual cards, I can't say I'd mind being able to just print off a deck based on a decklist, rather than having to scour bare markets for rare cards.
Middle Earth and other CCG unboxings, booster openings, and guides: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheCCGCollector

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nico21000
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Re: Printer Studio

Post by nico21000 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:06 pm

CCG Collector wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:24 pm
[snap] why not use gold borders or something similar on proxy cards? [snap]
Some concept tests :

Image

Image

Image
Last edited by nico21000 on Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Printer Studio

Post by CCG Collector » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:16 pm

That's quite nice, and I especially like that the back of the cards still feels "correct," since it looks like the MELE starter decks and boosters.
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