DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Moderators: Thorsten the Traveller, Vastor Peredhil

Which expansion should be finished next?

Middle-earth: The Great Wyrms
7
18%
Middle-earth: Nine for Mortal Men
1
3%
Middle-earth: The Northern Waste
16
40%
Middle-earth: Return of the Shadow
13
33%
Middle-earth: Treason of Isengard
2
5%
Middle-earth: War of the Ring
1
3%
other (post below)
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 40

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CDavis7M
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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by CDavis7M » Wed May 22, 2019 5:01 pm

I think these sets would qualify: Return of the Shadow, Treason of Isengard, and War of the Ring. Kingdom of the North and Red Nightfall are smaller but are not included, presumably because they are less developed.

The Great Wyrms is almost twice as big as Return of the Shadow, which would be a better hoice that ToI or WotR, as the beginning is a very good place to start.

Return of the Shadow is also not very disruptive. New sites in the same old regions, a few new petty/penny MPs, a few characters and allies around Eriador. And new permanent events with new possibilities (eg "Fair Travels" might actually be playable).

Anyway, I'll look more into these options and then hopefully get more opinions from experienced play testers.

gollum51
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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by gollum51 » Wed May 22, 2019 9:55 pm

I voted for Northern Waste :
1. I like the setting
2. It is probably quite mature, meaning that we would wait less than for some other sets
3. It has a good mix of hero and minion cards
4. I will personally mostly play it in a specific format, i.e. limiting play to the new MENW regions + Forochel, Rhudaur and Angmar, to ensure interaction (see Eric’s 3rd point in his introduction)
5. KotN and RotS were close seconds. But then I realised that I still have so many decks to build in the main regions (Eriador, Wilderland, Gondor, Mordor) thanks to MEFF and MENE. So I do not feel the need for more cards (especially new sites) in NW Middle Earth at this point in time.

gollum51
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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by gollum51 » Wed May 22, 2019 9:58 pm

Goblin King wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 4:39 am
Not at all sure what all of the expansions names stand for. But I voted for Nine for Mortal Men. It may not be what I think it is. I've always thought a good expansion would be what if one of the powerful rulers of men got The One.
The avatars would be people like Denethor, King Brand, Theoden, Prince Imrahil, Hurin the Tall, Lord of Lossarnach
Indeed, it is not quite what you think it is. :D
Have a look on cardgamegeek.com. Atani Lords are found in Treason of Isengard and War of the Ring.

Logain
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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by Logain » Thu May 23, 2019 4:37 pm

Darksatin wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 1:31 pm
Hello,
I have voted for "Return of the Shadow", but I think that cards from "Kingdom of the North" should be incorporated to this expansion (mainly the sites in Eriador).
+42
I'm not much into new regions.

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Shapeshifter
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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by Shapeshifter » Thu May 23, 2019 6:37 pm

I am undetermined. It's so hard to decide.

A good working edition of the Great Wyrms would be really fantastic!

Then there is The Northern Waste, which always has been one of my favourite expansions. Expanding further the map might also be a downside for normal DC games, though.

Return of the Shadow has so many great cards we know and love from the books. What I don't like about it is that it will make those strong Eriador decks even better. Probably I could revive my infamous Shire-shuffle deck :twisted: .

I think I'll go with the Wyrms...

gollum51
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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by gollum51 » Thu May 23, 2019 9:35 pm

Shapeshifter wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 6:37 pm

Return of the Shadow has so many great cards we know and love from the books. What I don't like about it is that it will make those strong Eriador decks even better.
I completely agree. Pity because I’d love to get ToI and WotR printed, but it would be strange to have them before RotS.

Kjeld
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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by Kjeld » Thu May 23, 2019 9:51 pm

gollum51 wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 9:35 pm
Pity because I’d love to get ToI and WotR printed, but it would be strange to have them before RotS.
What might be interesting is to rearrange the cards in these three sets (RotS, ToI, and WotR), so as to release two different (big) sets. The first would focus on introducing the missing content from the books (covering all three at once) without introducing any major changes to game modes. The second would focus on introducing the Men/Dunedain avatars: Theoden King, Prince Imrahil, Elessar (Aragorn), and Lord Denethor. This would be similar to what we got with Firstborn and Durin's Folk, and what is promised with The Great Wyrms. While that's a significant departure from the currently imagined sets, it might simplify things in terms of planning for and releasing sets in discrete stages and also allowing the community time to absorb new content.

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Fri May 24, 2019 9:05 am

I've compiled a list of all (unfinished) DC expansions, see here

Shapeshifter wrote:
What I don't like about it is that it will make those strong Eriador decks even better.
You are referring here mostly to the inclusion of the Unexpected Party sites, I assume? Or to the new 1 MP allies?


Well I have always viewed RotS, ToI, and WotR as a package deal, the trinity that represents LotR best.
They were not titled thus, and no more than a loose collection of ideas, up until 8 years ago or so. It is true that they have become a bit bloated perhaps, and we will take a comb and weed out the cards that are not essential or don't improve the game enough. Perhaps the UP sites should go to KotN rather, though they are already spread out over KotN, WotR and RotS...

The problem with dreamcards is that it can easily get out of hand, there are so many cool ideas and elements of the Tolkien legendarium to represent. And it's a hobby of so many players to come up with new cards. At some point people suggested we'd make a Green Dragon Inn site card: "Why is there no Green Dragon Inn where my Hobbits can have a pint?!" We should beware not to make meccg an RPG, and not to overload it and complicate it (even further).

That being said, a RotS/ToI/WotR package deal could have great thematic coherence, and not be much bigger than First Folk. The one concern I have is that, as next DC release, it would bring the balance between alignments again firmly back in favour of heroes. Then again, most people do seem to favour playing hero...

and ToI would definitely help Fallen-Saruman, so there's that! :-)
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

dirhaval
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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by dirhaval » Thu May 30, 2019 4:31 pm

I am glad to see about 30 votes for Dream Cards.

My thoughts is the idea of paving expansions to help other expansions.
meRS has many nice cards that can be used anywhere. Thus, I would like for such cards from such unworked expansions
to be flavored into decks here and there including expansions under testing. Thus, the set then can be tested faster when it's time is selected.
How about including at least one such card from meRS or meTI when you test a meNW deck?

meMM is a set that was did not enter into my mind as like Tolkien imagining Rohan when Frodo left Crickhollow. My opinion is that
the atani-lords would like to have a Man-Ring, and that means meWR or meTI is ready.

meTI can need to go first ahead of meWR do to the new avatar types. How much "lifting" will they do in comparison to DL and EL?
I feel that meSL may need to be done before meWR. I like to see King Elessar trading silk in Isra, but the "map" has yet to be made.

That leaves meGW and meNW. Dragon-lords need that space west of the Grey Mountains. Throkmaw, Lomaw, and Daelomin can fly or swim there.
Alas, I have already made a few meGW decks. I can see playtesting DragonLord decks while meNW is being tested. meGW will allow Gandalf, Alatar, Pallando, and Radagast means to enter the north. Elrond, Cirdan, and Thranduil are nearby. Angmar is close too. Balrog of Moria=I call him Felagrog, can play some nice items under the bays of Forochel. Dol Guldur is four regions away - too far.

Hero decks I like in meNW except for Elves of Evermist of course include:
Cirdan exploring and playing elf factions,
Elrond playing spells
Thranduil or Alatar hunting
Gandalf playing Man and rune items
Radagast playing animal factions
Pallando making a trade route with new factions
DL mining so to reach no-surface sites by other means
DL sacking dark-holds and dragon lairs
For minions: attacking border-holds, okay now I am stalling on ideas. How about a minion resource event allowing the play of wolf allies
at any Ruins in the same region as a NW border-hold? Now many minion allies around: Two-headed troll at one site, bird allies. Just an idea
to get more wolf allies/allies playing so to CvCC in the NW. Or minion elemental allies besides Eloeklo? Wind for him, Ice is that gal maia, snow?
Okay let that idea melt away.
oh, a new spirit ring that nullifies Environments affecting a company? It is about your "spirit" no liking the weather. Maybe force everyone to
make a CC, pass all = no effect, one failure only means the hazard affects. Shifting Paths is like an illusion and your spirit can notice such things
if you have this spirit ring in your company? name=? The Elemental Ring? -2 mind, 3 CP.

Something needs to be done with Durlach. He might need to lose his prison-play test it though. How about a gem to counter Tear of Yavanna?
MERP has it that Barad Lughilsarik has a piece of the Northern Lamp nearby allowing The Witch-king to tap into it and change the weather. Make three more small pieces?


For me it is either meNW or meWR. However, if you choose meNW then slowly bring-in meGW decks ever so often then meGW can be completed so afterwards. Or go with meWR and slowly test meTI and meSL too.

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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by Fangorn » Thu May 30, 2019 9:23 pm

I voted Treason of Isengard for Ent quests :D

Playing Dragon as avatar would be fantastic with Great Wyrms, and with such Grey alignment metagame would balance towards minions (on par with Elf and Dwarf Lords).
Still Great Wyrms is closed second, not only because Ents are cooler than Dragons, but I also dislike some new specific rules such as bringing character during site phase.

I like new regions within or bordering the existing map such as Grey Mountains or Umbar, but I dislike new whole territories such as Northern Waste or Great Central Plains.
Hrum, Hoom ! Do not be hasty, that is my motto.

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:09 am

mod: moved Dirhaval's post to Development section, see
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=3859
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

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CDavis7M
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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by CDavis7M » Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:56 pm

I'm going to make a couple decks to play test along with FB and DF. So:

Base+FB+DF+Northern Wastes

And

Base+FB+DF+Return of the Shadow

Let me know if you want to play test with me on CardNum. I'd like to include the specific hazards and tailor the decks to their sets, and then we would both play set-specfic decks.

EDIT: I have a FB+DF+NE+RotS deck ready to go. It'll take me a while to get a Northern Wastes deck ready.




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CDavis7M
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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by CDavis7M » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:33 am


dirhaval wrote: Hero decks I like in meNW except for Elves of Evermist of course include:
Cirdan exploring and playing elf factions,
Elrond playing spells
Thranduil or Alatar hunting
Gandalf playing Man and rune items
Radagast playing animal factions
Pallando making a trade route with new factions
DL mining so to reach no-surface sites by other means
DL sacking dark-holds and dragon lairs
/allies playing so to CvCC in the NW. Or minion elemental allies besides Eloeklo? Wind for him, Ice is that gal maia, snow?
Okay let that idea melt away.
Thanks for posting your ideas. Would you mind explaining 1 or 2 of them in more detail? I have been trying to build a Northern Wastes deck and not coming up with anything beyond the obvious Tears of Yavanna set of MP cards. I'd like the deck to focus on the NW sites rather then just sprinkling a couple cards for the set. But from looking at the sites and effects, I just don't see why I would bother with the Northern Wastes over the original regions.

Say you take Cirdan to sea. Well, there really isn't too much to do in the NW besides get a couple factions. Those are decent MPs but I would only be using 2 sites and 2 factions at best.

Or, Dwarf Lords... There is 1 ancient Dwarf Hold, but why bother? Fewer dragons are keyable, maybe?

Radagast animal factions seem easier to play down in the regular map. The new faction is nice but can't be played repeatedly. The 2MP for 4 animal faction booster is nice for a regular Radagast animal deck, but I would like to make a NW strategy. Potentially this deck would just work with 2 completely separate companies.

Some of the characters are cool, but none of them are really pulling me in. I'd like to play around with the Umit but there is only a handful of cards, not a full company. You really need to use the elves and men too.

The minion wolf ideas are neat but I'm not sure it's a full strategy.

Of course, it is just an alternative area. And the environment cards are neat... Maybe I just need to build a plain deck and see.

dirhaval
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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by dirhaval » Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:43 pm

Let me first say: Wow! Just received and opened the box of FF, DF, and MENE cards and guides! I was a kid again looking at the prowess/body shield and the awesome art. Beautiful. Every penny was worth it even if all those pennies were silver mercuries.

About a MENW Deck; I already made one deck: In TA 1145, Radagast seeks the waste to heal after hearing word from Elrond.
a 30/30 deck. MP cards: Wizard staff, greater and major spell beads, bow of dragon-horn left after the War of Wrath, beadmaker knives,
animal factions: panolpy, lossidil, losrandir, merikoirat, wild hounds, Friend of Kelver. Include Thror's Map to maybe trick
on move east.

Hide from attacks; trickey from greater spell bead, Ford, Man Turns D, use spells with Ancient Skill and Wisdom
vanishment, W voice/fire/riverhorses/uncloaked.
Spring of Arda, Mithrandir.

Play greater item at Thilgon's Tomb with Ancient Knowledge
Greater spell bead, major sb in Forochel, Amon Anlug has the bow.
Runeknives in Gondalf.

No region more than four from Evermist for goodies. Maybe Helloth is far.


OTHER
Use Dwarf-lords to build a trading route over the Iron Mountains.
Or Deep Mines + New Tunnels to reach Under-Forges and thus fast access to unique items under the sea.
I like the idea of Cirdan to sail into the north and reach Lotan and come down to Rhubar to play Taur Romen elves and Avari.
Fallen Saruman is good with the new rings, minion sites have gold ring items.
I like to have Alatar use Celeb-Ost to play Map to Mithril at Moria to boost weapons. Valiant Sword + Map (5p,1b) with Dwarven Art of War on Balin(9p,8b) with 2 CP!
I like New Supplies in the Northern Waste for no-avatar.
Gandalf would like the NW but Ancient Burial Site makes gold rings more common.
Fallen Pallando is a natural with more palantir and Helloth + Los'pindel keeping one more card in hand.

I like to use the site cards as keystones for ideas now with the expansions.
What cards have I not used? Then I try to build a deck with them. Use Palantir my old friend.

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CDavis7M
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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by CDavis7M » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:04 am

Thanks for the inspiration, friend! I'll work on something and let you guys know what I come up with.

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