DC Poll: Minor Item Playability

Moderators: Vastor Peredhil, Thorsten the Traveller

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Should Minor Items be more widely playable?

Yes, Minor Items should be playable at any site where items are playable.
2
14%
Yes, Minor Items should be playable at any site where something is playable (as listed on the site card).
2
14%
Yes, Minor Items should be playable at any site.
4
29%
No.
3
21%
Uh, which problem does this solve?
3
21%
 
Total votes: 14

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Thorsten the Traveller
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DC Poll: Minor Item Playability

Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:13 pm

For some (weird) reason, ICE decided that at some sites where Gold Rings or Information is playable, Minor Items should also be playable, while at others it should not.
Examples:
Ost-in-Edhil plays Gold Rings and Minors, Gladden Fields only Gold Rings.
Amon Hen plays Information and Minors, Weathertop only Information.
Beorn's House and Edoras (minion) play Gold Rings, but no Minor Items???

Of course, when tapping these sites you can still play a minor item. But there might be situations in which you have nothing to tap such a site (other than a minor item), or only 1 untapped character.... Hence this rules proposal.

Things to consider:
- using Minor Items to tap a site makes some sites easier to tap, allowing also other resources playable there (especially for minions).
- playing Minor Items everywhere makes sites where only Minor Items are playable bit more moot.
- playing Minor Items to tap a site makes other resources needed to tap a site (especially for minions) less used.
- is there any theme involved (aka: ICE is always right, even when they're wrong?).

hope you'll share your thoughts on this one!

nb. some say that option 3 (of the poll) was planned to be part of the Second Edition for meccg.
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

Vastor Peredhil
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Re: DC Poll: Minor Item Playability

Post by Vastor Peredhil » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:28 pm

I took option 3, even though burning decks are popular, they are not top material except for balrog, but that is another issue, it will allow for more fun decks as well as allow minor items to be a more used as some play a key role against some hazard strats (eg. Fizzling torch=?)

yours Nicolai

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Re: DC Poll: Minor Item Playability

Post by Shapeshifter » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:34 pm

For me it is option 1. Minor items are still very rare. You will usually not find a Dagger of Westernesse in Lake-town or an Elven-cloak in Bree (and then burn it down :twisted: ). On the other hand Cram or Horn of Arnor will most likely be found in Free-holds :wink:

Be sure to apply any of the poll options to non-hoard items only :wink: :!:

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Re: DC Poll: Minor Item Playability

Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:39 pm

Why would minor hoard items be playable at non-hoard sites? That part of the playability condition is not mentioned, and thus not changed.

btw. one could definitely foresee a Dagger of Westernesse being dropped on Weathertop by a scared Sam Gamgee facing a Nazgûl ;-)
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Re: DC Poll: Minor Item Playability

Post by Vastor Peredhil » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:12 pm

the issue to solve is whether minions need to include either Twice Baked Cakes or Longwinter to tap Henneth Annum or a Wosehold to be able to play Burning Rick Cot and Tree.

Or allow them to play something useful like Foul Paste to tap the site.

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Re: DC Poll: Minor Item Playability

Post by Vastor Peredhil » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:37 pm

we could really need more feedback now that we explained our case

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Re: DC Poll: Minor Item Playability

Post by dirhaval » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:29 pm

I voted No.

Background on MECC
I think the theme for minions and the issue with minor items are for playing special rings.
Minions have an easier time to play special rings. Also, the opponent has a good idea
of his opponent's purpose when visiting sites such as Gladden Fields and Weathertop.
Less cards for ring testing allows room for resources to handle event attacks.
Visit Edoras, use Not Slay Needlessly, play Bright gold Ring, then play Smoke on the Wind.
Followed by A Nice Place to Hide, use Mionid to face 10 prowess strike, then tap one character.
All that costs four characters for 5 MP. Iron Road them home if you want. But, the cost
is having that 4 CP item for two Organizaton phases. You can tap instead for To Satisfy the Questioner
for 3 meaty MPs. Heros do not have that for Dark-holds. You can also store events and items
using Messanger to Mordor or News Must Get Through thinning the deck staying away
from a haven.

Minion Battle-gear items are easy with Old Cache and Swag. MECCG allowed factions
to be played at Darkhavens, which gives minor items when tapping. But now we have
the same for hero havens.

Burning is nice. The cost of tapping a site before burning I think is a fair price
for a high-prowess company, which the attacks can be cancelled. You could play a Wose
faction at the site before burning, which success forces the discard of that faction.

There are now 3 Wose-holds near Gap of Isen. One site is hidden. I do not like this rule
change with so many available sites Let me see the stats.

81 border-holds
Info=22
rings=16
minor=62
no minors=19,
for the four major Darkhavens:
Druadan Forest
Southron Oasis
Easterling Camp
Lake-town
Woodmen-Town
Leiri
Lossadan Camp
Ruskea Vene
The Last Bridge
Dunharrow
Lond Galen
Wose PH

Those with no ring, Info, or minor
Druadan Forest
Easterling Camp
Hall of Aluva
Southron Oasis
Variag Camp
Woodmen-Town
Wose PH


That is a small list of seven sites.

The three "mordor" man sites are not in the discussion for burning. Hall of Aluva is far away.
That leaves three sites.

MECCG border-holds in Wilderland include Lake-town, Dale, Dorwinion, Raider-hold. Play major items at two, ring x1, Info x1.



All this I have No for a minor item change...unless you want to make WPH and Druadan Forest cards' AA and Special the same as Yatali Kirgan.
Three strikes with 5 prowess will not stop a burning company. But four strikes with 8 prowess is better. you may tap two minions of 5 prowess. Allowing minor items everywhere reduces chances to play multi-region creatures.

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Re: DC Poll: Minor Item Playability

Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:19 pm

My own main objective was (as mentioned in the original post) simply to simplify the minor item playability. Adding extra options is a bonus.

When making the new DC Sites map, the thought arrose: wouldn't it be easier if I didn't have to mention for each site which has stuff playable that you can also score a minor item? And not finding minors at Edoras or Beorn's House just irks me, it has no thematic justification, nor game-play meaning, and diversification for the sake of diversifying is also dumb. It seems another ICE oversight.

Hence I chose option 2.
Tapping sites for burning was not my main concern. There are ways to do it, if one must, but there's no real need to burn Druadan forest or Henneth Annun.

With 10 votes cast, only 1 is against it, though 3 see no need for change. The 6 positives are divided across the 3 options. We must thus consider carefully which to choose.
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

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Re: DC Poll: Minor Item Playability

Post by Logain » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:47 pm

3 for me.
Simplicity on such a point.

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Re: DC Poll: Minor Item Playability

Post by dirhaval » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:11 am

I have been speaking with Eric lately about this topic. He knocked some sense into me.
Fate has three starting items, which I am happy that DC adopted. I like minor items as much as
the next Hobbit.

It is true that Ringwraiths are more mobile and hazards with DC are more unforgiven
with taking to hand. Thus, I am okay with playing minor items at any site where something
else (info or gold ring) is playable as written on the card. This leaves normal havens out and
safe sites like Edoras for heroes and Cirith Ungol for minions. This does not help Balrog much
so he just has to win his games and accept the new power that is rising.

regular at the Green Dragon

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