Bilbo's Magic Ring & Rumor of ring

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Bilbo's Magic Ring & Rumor of ring

Post by Silivren » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:37 am

The question is in the title !
Is the first one playable on the second one ?
Thanks !

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Re: Bilbo's Magic Ring & Rumor of ring

Post by rezwits » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:49 am

Many times, new rulings take flight from other rulings. Using the ruling of Arwen:

Arwen can only use her Direct Influence bonus for Aragorn II, not Strider. This is because a manifestation of an entity is not the same as that named entity [Van 583].


This is because a manifestation of an entity is not the same as that named entity.


During your organization phase, you may take one ring special item (except for The One Ring) from your sideboard and place it "off to the side" with this card.

So using "Standard Netrep Rulings" then YES YOU ABSOLUTLEY CAN.

BUT... and here is the bad news:

Using the LATEST DC General Rules 1.0.pdf

the answer is NO NO NO:

Manifestation rules:
 If a card mentions a specific character or resource as requirement to be played or to take an effect, you may normally substitute that with any other character c.q. resource manifestation of the mentioned card.
Examples: - Vilya may be played on Elrond Half-elven as if on Elrond.
- Strider may use Athelas as if Aragorn II.
- Arwen has +7 DI against Strider and Thorongil.
- The Precious can be played on a character in the company with Bilbo’s Magic Ring. Exception: Return of the King and Army of the Dead may only be played on/by Aragorn II.

Which means since Bilbo's Ring is a manifestation of "The One Ring" you CAN'T use Rumours of Rings, when playing strictly Dreamcards vs Dreamcards.

This is a good thing...


n.b. If for some reason your play group just adds 1 or 2 dreamcards to a deck here and there, this is somewhat frowned upon. And it is suggested to construct an actual DC deck, and read the brief rules pdfs.

The two "MAIN" formats we have are Standard MECCG, and Dreamcards. These are much akin to the Magic the Gathering Days of Type I and Type II (or Standard) but in reverse order where:

Dreamcards are Vintage (aka old school Type I) and
Standard MECCG is Standard (aka old school Type II)

Why I am relatiing these like that is because the card pool is Larger when using Dreamcards (especailly in Digital Format) and Standard is smaller. And in the Dreamcards there is more variation in what can be played and sometimes a stronger card can appear only because of the expansion...

You probably aren't playing Agents correctly 8) <- need a rule thread for this tho...

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Re: Bilbo's Magic Ring & Rumor of ring & other triicks

Post by Vastor Peredhil » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:41 pm

Just for clarification: As a Sauron player my minion company can play Bilbos Magic Ring at minion Under-grottos.But cannot use his abilities.Testing with Test of Fire will also not work.But Celedhring can.Assume he gets The One Ring (Hero) when testing that hero version is legally playable to bring it to Barad-Dur.Am I right?Thanks for clarification.Minions can play hero items but cannot use their abilities.Uwe

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Re: Bilbo's Magic Ring & Rumor of ring

Post by Vastor Peredhil » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:09 am

Not sure why you assume that Celedhring works differently from Test of Fire?

As I see it neither can test it, since the text is ignored, so what will tell you what it can be tested for ;) ?

other people see this how?

yours Nicolai

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Re: Bilbo's Magic Ring & Rumor of ring

Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:03 pm

Celedhring can test gold rings, and since BMR's is a special item and its text does not apply to minions, he cannot test it.

However, Uwe does touch upon a problem.
BMR's text does not apply to minions, thus the line "you cannot play a resource to win the game..." also does not apply. Minions don't need any resource to win by way of One Ring, moreover "manifestation of The One Ring" does apply. I'm not sure whether the MELE rule "Bring The One Ring to Barad-dûr" refers to the card or also to its manifestations, but logic (and certainly DC logic) would suggest that it does, and that would be way too easy to accomplish.

In hindsight, perhaps BMR should not have been a manifestation of TOR, there's pros and cons to either option (e.g. play via Rumours, have One Ring and BMR in play simultaneously), it was ultimately a thematical decision. Perhaps a DC ruling is required.
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Re: Bilbo's Magic Ring & Rumor of ring

Post by Uwe » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:21 am

Hi you all,the thing is i really love BMR.You have done a wonderful card when creating it.When this ring has been found and it was not clear at that moment that it was indeed TOR.As i´m more of a scenario player,i create decks witch have a background from the storys from the Hobbit or Lord of the Rings.And BMR fits perfectly for me.Next i´m a Sauron player and therefore try to find a way to include BMR for minions.Anyone could have found BMR but Bilbo was the lucky one.My minions find BMR,cannot use him, and to win the game they must bring TOR to Barad-dur not BMR.So we come to testing.Test of fire will not work because BMR is a hero item.Prisoner from Ost-in Edihl or Celdhring???I found a card called Bound up with it from the expansion Nine for Mortal Men which is a dual card and with that card all gold ring items in play are tested.That could work.Making BMR a dual card is not what you intended i guess and i will not disturb your fantastic DC work.So many words and final question:How can my minions (Elfs,Dwarfs,Men or Dunadan) test BMR to get TOR out.Cheers Uwe

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