What if ...Wizards vs Nazgul

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Goblin King
Posts: 227
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:49 am

I have a version of ARDA that I like to call Wizards of Middle Earth. It plays five.
I have a version of Dark ARDA that I like to call Nazgul of Middle Earth. It plays nine.
So what does a 14 player ARDA game look like?
Maybe something like this:
So what if we had two tables playing those games at the same time. And what if there was a way to have the two games interact with each other.
You have the Wizards running around on one board with heroes and Nazgul running around on the other board with minions and agents.
You would need three referees for this game as well -- one for each table and one to run the command booth.
The command booth would keep track of where all the hero fellowships and all the minion fellowships are located on the map. When two are located in the same location they would have a chance of running into each other for CvC combat.
Central command would also keep track of treasures that could be found in both a hero and a minion form (Dwarven rings, Palantir, One Ring) once they are taken at one table, they are removed at the other table.
There could also be ways to track dragon manifestations at each table and villages or cities burned and factions recruited.
There should be rules created.
Rules for finding a group of the opposite allignment in a city or a cavern or in mines.
Rules for avoiding being found.
Rules for fighting we already have.
Rules for replacing a treasure just found by a player at one table when it sits in the hand of another player at the opposite table.
It could be a really fun game. I can't imagine trying to run it anywhere except GenCon or Lure.
But I can dream. Anyone else have ideas?
Posts: 776
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:39 am

You got me at What If.

I would travel across the world to be a table card organizer/ or in central command.
I got an Excel file with VBA code that will help keep table cards and companies organized and
ready to share to anyone. I can use my laptop to run the code, while uploading to a slideshow
that is projected to a screen where all can see: not company locations, but global events/uniques.
I thought of this 20 years ago.

See ideas for multi-player game rules:

So you know Arda is like Middle-Earth as what I a doing is like hobbit family tree discussions.

Okay rules:
Ranger helps to know enemy is at same site.
Scout helps to hide from enemy at same site.
Factions and allies can help to know if enemy is at same site or in same region and to hide.

Maybe after facing automatic-attack, add mind of all entities with site as home site
and if greater than ??? 6 ??? be alerted of enemy company. Referee will role for
other company by subtracting MP of those with the same home site.

Maybe allow original company to cancel the "search" through normal means AND in secret.
Here, Trolls are at Weathertop smelling elves. They are looking for you there; Gandalf, elves, and some hobbits are hiding.
Gandalf player notifies referee Pippin will tap to play Concealment. Gandalf takes no action so to not alert Trolls.
When Gandalf would discard a card next for any reason, that card and Concealment will sneakingly be discarded
for it was used.
Could make a roll first, a 2 denotes not found; 12 found. If neither than do above.

Maybe keep items at a site if lost by a discarded/killed/corrupted player.
Allow minions to play hero character that was corrupted?

Need to know if playing a card gives enemy your whereabouts. Oh, you just influenced Woodmen. Let my Ringwraith
travel there next turn. Maybe give a one turn delay to make table card visible? Or immediately if enemy is at same site
or in same region at time of play?

And minion agents can tattle too on hero whereabouts.
Goblin King
Posts: 227
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:49 am

Hah hah!
I'm glad I got someone interested. Well, I've already told people I'm committed to GenCon next year. Might as well see if we can run a game while we are there. Of course there are limits to the size etc. And there's already a long-standing ARDA game run by the guy who created it. But I know him and I can reach out to Mr. Frodo and see if he would be game as well.
I think we are along the same lines with scouts and rangers. But those should only work in wilderness and caves. In villages and towns and cities, we are talking diplomats to both detect and avoid (Agents in their home get big bonuses).
I don't want to make the interaction rules too big a part of the game. The tables will already be busy enough with people running around gathering treasure. But YES let's keep throwing stuff around here and see what we can make stick.
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Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:39 am

True, diplomats will quickly mix with the elite of the town and learn of passer-bys.
Sages too will learn of the wiseman/woman in town and hear clutter-butt.

With chances of failure of cross-alignment and so much effort to play, how about
modifying the effects of character discard, i.e. Call of Home, to instead tap the character
and discard hazard instead of next untapping? This will add characters to the game
AND give player the lower risk to seek and destroy.

If I get 4 more GI I will use Orc-Chieftain, Orc-Sniffler, and Orc-Brawler to roam
all around Southern Mirkwood. Then if finding dwarves at Buhr Widu send in
Gorfaur and this troop using Piercing All Shadows because of his Roadblock hazards.

If you really want to torch the lands, how about making a region a Shadow-land if
all border-holds are no more and at least one non-normal Shadow-hold is made into a shadow-hold
and already adjacent to a shadow-land, dark-domain.
That is Burn all border-holds in Forochel, be allowed to play Eddy in Fate's Tide at one such Burn site
to make it a Ruins, then play on it Hold Rebuilt and Repaired to make region a Shadow-land.

What about the Balrog? How about 5 wizards and 1 Balrog on a table against 6 Ringwraiths;
Witch-king will be one RW allowed two other RWs to be used as a follower. One of the other
Ringwraiths will use Uvatha as a follower OR Khamual is a player and has the remaining RW as a follower?

5 Wizards located: Gondor/Rohan, Eriador, Wilderland, Rhun, dwarf in Deeps giving Balrog options all around
to surface to play Eddy, Scourge, Crowned with Storm.
Goblin King
Posts: 227
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:49 am

Too far off the rails for me. I don't want to add books of rules to the books of rules we already have.
Wizards of Middle Earth and Nazgul of Middle Earth use existing rules and errata with few exceptions. The reason for this is so that a person can play in these games and then pick up a MECCG challenge deck and play that. Same rules.
Nazgul of Middle Earth (aka Dark ARDA) has rules on this forum that I wrote and would use for this game. If there are 9 Nazgul players at the table, then the Nazgul that usually have power associated with Nazgul follower get the ability on their revealed card instead (Witch King Revealed etc).
I don't want to make it harder for people to lose characters or be eliminated from a 14 player game! I absolutely want elimination to happen!
As for the Balrog, he has no place in this game. THe Balrog can't use any of the cards in the Wizards deck. He can't use most of the Nazgul characters either. Placing the Balrog in an Arda is a big waste of time.
I don't use the Underdeeps at all in Arda. It just unnecessarily complicates the game.
Posts: 776
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Off the rails... I like that; my goal is to provide tidbits on the edges of the map to alert one not to travel. Was it Bilbo or Frodo that wonder what lies beyond the maps? Smart to not have the Balrog player; would be surprise to allow a Balrog player to join midway through the game to truly encounter an Eddy in Fate's Tide.

About eliminating characters and to add the benefits for CvCC: every difference of five in combat prowess comparison adds one to the body check?
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What a neat idea. And I think a workable solution could be found by incorporating elements of Middle-earth Play By Mail. Have you guys played that?

After each turn you get rumors of enemy activities. Not all activities but a chance. But say, minion activities at free holds are extremely likely to generate rumors that the Wizards hear of. Border holds less likely, and Dark holds extremely unlikely.

The rumors could be used to play hazards that are pooled together and given to the GM

But, there could be a mechanic of sending agents into locations to scout for companies. Say the agent lands on the site, they get the names of characters and maybe even items depending on a roll. Agents also get information within 1 adjacent region but depends on a roll and just activities like "a minion company discovered an item in Northern Rhovanian".

Similar to PBM. Maybe diplomats could go influence the opponents sites, not the faction. But the sites would then "turn against" their alignment, maybe swapping the automatic-attacks from the opposite alignment. Perhaps that could also lower GI across the board. Say 2-4 point of GI per site. With sites starting based on alignment.

There would need to be a way to figure out exactly where companies were going to ensure interactions. Again, timing could depend on regions.

Orcs in borderlands of Rohan are reported by rumors and can be reacted to in time to move and attack. Etc. A Palantir might also provide that level of information.

Warrior characters could lead factions to go flip sites. Providing a bonus compared to the resident faction.

I imagine that it could almost be a guided cooperative solitaire type experience where one of the table GM plays the hazards against the group of wizards. The hazards being selected by the Ringwraith players as a team.

Definitely avoid any economy management and bankruptcy. Dwar the Dog Lord is at a 97% tax rate and Hoarmurath already went bankrupt from a siege on Durthang by the Noldor cavalry.

By the way, the PBM games take months or years to complete. Even an in person game takes a full weekend.
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