Arda Co-op?

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pi149
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 7:36 pm

In my continuing efforts to trick... I mean convince my gaming group to play meccg I have determined that a fully cooperative arda varient might be more to their liking.

My current plan, using Gandalf Gene's arda deck as a base, is as follows:

There are 8 "decks":
1. Quest deck: all resources worth marshaling points
2. Play deck: all other resource events
3. Ring deck: all rings except gold rings
4. Minor item deck: all minor items
5. Character deck: all characters
6. Creature deck: all hazard creatures
7. Event deck: most hazard events, including nazgul
8. Sauron deck: most hazard long and permanent events except all corruption cards and event/creature hybrid cards are in the event deck


Setup:
Players choose their wizard and draft their characters as per normal arda.

The quest deck and the character deck each have a buy row of 6(?) face up cards available for anyone to play.


Sequence of Play:
All players take their untap, organization, and long event phases at the same time, to reduce player downtime.
At the start of the long event phase, player count -1 cards are played from the top of the sauron deck to create difficulties for the players.

The movement/hazard and site phases are played in the normal way of each player having their own turn.  A player completes both phases before the next player goes.
In each company's movement/hazard plays the players reveal cards from both the creature and event decks, each equal to the number of cards the opponent would draw from the site.  The players then collectively decide which hazards would be most powerful and play them up to the hazard limit.
Whenever a player plays a minor item or tests a ring, they look through the corresponding deck a choose a valid card to play.

Players complete the end of turn simultaneously.
The players win if they destroy the ring or if their combined marshaling points = 25(?) times the number of players.
The players lose if ?  I think the loss condition might be time runs out, either a set number of turns or decks run through, but I don't know how long to make such a timer.

I am still very much a meccg newbie, so I have some questions for you fine folks.  Am I making any obvious mistakes?  Any thing seem like it is too clunky, or won't work, just could be done better?  I figured I would ask here before trying to throw this at even newer players than I.
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CDavis7M
Posts: 2816
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:10 am
Location: California

A few comments.

PLAYING HAZARDS
My main suggestion would be for you to act as the hazard player for everyone rather than revealing cards and letting everyone decide. The thoughtfulness (meanness) of hazard play is what brings out a lot of interesting decisions during play, which is fun. This is your opportunity to teach them how to draw and play hazards like in a normal. After a game or two the others might want to play hazards themselves.

For on-guard cards my group requires them to be real/playable. No bluffs. I think this makes sense in Arda.

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HAZARD DECK

Gandalf Gene's Arda deck is focused on men and orc hazards. It makes it more focused, easier to play, and less junk comes into your hand compare to Arda with 1 of every possible card. Still, if you are going to play hazards from a deck as you suggested, or if you are going to be a hazard banker playing hazards on everyone, it might make sense to build a more traditional hazard deck with multiple copies of cards, with more variety.

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SETUP

If you want things to go smoothly, let players start with their wizard, give them the option to start their company at the Wizard's homesite, and let them drop/draw MP cards at the start to get something more focused. At first it would be fine to let them drop/draw as many MPs as they want. You can help them decide. If you really want to make it easy you can make groups of 5 cards: 2 factions nearby each other, 2 major items (or nearby special items), and 1 greater item. Then they can just randomly pick a set for their starting hand.

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HAND SIZE

When I play Arda we have 8 cards in hand (resources and hazards) and a separate 5 card MP hand. But if your hand has no hazards than 13 resources doesn't really make sense. You could have 8 cards with resources and MPs together like normal.
pi149
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 7:36 pm

CDavis7M wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:33 pm A few comments.

PLAYING HAZARDS
My main suggestion would be for you to act as the hazard player for everyone rather than revealing cards and letting everyone decide. The thoughtfulness (meanness) of hazard play is what brings out a lot of interesting decisions during play, which is fun. This is your opportunity to teach them how to draw and play hazards like in a normal. After a game or two the others might want to play hazards themselves.
For hazard play, I agree that it is an import part of the game, unfortunately the meanness as you put it is a significant barrier to entry for many of my local play group. Perhaps the main thing I am hoping to come up with is a system for playing hazards without this meanness. My hope is that by moving hazard play to a group decision, or perhaps an automated system, it will seem, well, cooperative instead of competitive.

As for the hazard deck itself, yeah I will definitely be doing at least some tweeking, I will have to see what I can put together.

Good suggestion about starting with the wizard in play.

For hand size, I was considering just 5 only from the play deck with the only mp cards available being the ones in the buy row. The idea would be the players would work together to prioritize mp plays cooperatively. Although I suppose that might be too limiting?
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CDavis7M
Posts: 2816
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:10 am
Location: California

pi149 wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:20 pm For hand size, I was considering just 5 only from the play deck with the only mp cards available being the ones in the buy row. The idea would be the players would work together to prioritize mp plays cooperatively. Although I suppose that might be too limiting?
I would have more cards, maybe 10. That gives the players something to discuss since one person might plan to get 2 or 3 MPs over several turns.

Try Arda out and see what you think. But I wonder if a custom scenario might be better if the players want hazards to be played from a deck. There should be some antagonist more than generic hazards.
pi149
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 7:36 pm

I will give 10 a try. You might be right about a custom scenario, but I don't want to layer on too much extra complexity... just something to impersonate the feel of an adversary, perhaps a system of mini objectives that pop up for players to react too and a couple extra big objectives to plan for akin to destroying the ring. And a more thematic loss condition should be part of it too, tying in more closely to what the players have succeeded and failed at.
Kjeld
Posts: 307
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:40 pm

Have you looked at this thread by Theo? "Dissipate Darkness/Audacity -- A General Cooperative Variant"

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=4472
pi149
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 7:36 pm

Kjeld wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:52 pm Have you looked at this thread by Theo? "Dissipate Darkness/Audacity -- A General Cooperative Variant"

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=4472
Yes, I recently was directed there and it has been very helpful.

First test with 4 players went well, changed the event deck to a mix of corruption, attack boosters, and hazard limit/playability assisters. Changed hazzard play to reveal company size/2 event deck cards and play one for free and then reveal twice oppent draw creature deck cards and play up to hazard limit akin to the solitaire rules.
Also added the darkness mechanic from Theo's rules, which everyone liked. We reached the 100 points for victory the turn before darkness would have caused defeat.

I am still going to go through the hazzard decks from scratch for the next test game, and am still considering more mission or objective style elements.
Kjeld
Posts: 307
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:40 pm

pi149 wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:51 am Also added the darkness mechanic from Theo's rules, which everyone liked. We reached the 100 points for victory the turn before darkness would have caused defeat.

I am still going to go through the hazzard decks from scratch for the next test game, and am still considering more mission or objective style elements.
Great, sounds like it's working well! Any chance you might post your decklists at some point?
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