Council of Elrond

Just before ICE lost the license to produce MECCG there was discussion around creating a second edition of the game drawing from all the sets already produced while simplifying the game mechanics.

I was just wondering if there was ever any discussion about moving this idea forward. Or if it has been considered for a future dream card expansion?

Here is what Coleman Charlton, one founding members of ICE, and one of the co-designers of the MECCG card game had to say about it in the Official MECCG newsletter #4 shortly before the release of The Balrog expansion and the loss of license, to give you an idea of what it might look like.

“ Coleman: Currently, ICE is discussing releasing the revision (LORE CG, the Lord of the Rings Expandable Card Game) in late summer or the fall of 1999. Remember, all of these comments are just possibilities – we have not made any final decisions yet.

The revision would use the same card titles and card backs as the current game, so that current players could use existing cards along with copies of the revised card text.
Our primary objective is to make the game more accessible to a larger body of players. This would be particularly important with the LOR movie com- ing in 2000.

We want to maintain the good features of the current version, while stream- lining and simplifying certain ele- ments. If we can do this, the game would be: easier to learn, fun, playable in 30-45 minutes, and errata/ rulings free.

The revision would use the “fixed/ challenge deck” format and each box (slightly larger than two decks side by side) would include a map/board that would handle all movement (eliminating site cards) and perhaps dice.
Some of the major changes being con- sidered are: Map driven movement would be used with site information on the map. Each playable card (e.g., item, information, etc.) would carry its own playability information like fac- tions and allies do now.

We would introduce simplified tim- ing – each action and its effects would be played out in full before another action could be announced (with ex- ceptions based on keywords on spe- cific “counter” cards). Players would alternate taking actions during move- ment phases.

General influence and direct influence would be combined into one variable: influence. Current mind values would be rescaled to run from 0 to 3 or 4. Each player would have a base of 6 influence with specific characters con- tributing more influence. We would remove the concept of followers. You would be limited to a maximum of two companies at one time. Any number of characters could be brought into play each turn with no limitations on the location of your Wizard (now called your main character). You would never be forced to discard a character due to a lack of influence.

We would eliminate on-guard cards, but allowing certain hazard play when any attack is resolved. We would re- move long-events and make such card effects text driven. We would change the turn sequence so that cards are only discarded at the end of the turn. In addition, all cards previously moved or replaced into the draw pile (the old play deck) would be placed in a re- serve pile instead. This would eliminate reshuffling except at the end of the turn.

We would reduce the majority of 4+ MP sources to 3 MPs. A number of current rules would become card driven: different MP types for dou- bling purposes, influencing an opponent’s characters and resources, etc.

Minor items would be playable from your draw pile, discard pile, or side- board. Hazard card removal during the organization phase would be standard- ized. You would always receive +3 towards removal if tapping.“

What do you guys think about these ideas?

The timing rules and the discard to reserve pile sound very similar to the mechanics for the Star Wars CCG, which to be fair has a very clean set of mechanics.

There are lots of LoRE files over at BGG, including the map with auto attacks, the rules, and card text. https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/191 ... arth/files

My impression is that the LoRE did not change the game in any meaningful way, and certainly not for veteran players at the time (my impression, I was not there), which is probably why it never caught on. And since it didn't catch on 15-20 years ago, it's too late for LoRE now.

Here's the thing, it removes things that people loved (apparently) and keeps the things that people hated, all while not actually making the game simpler, not even for beginners.

People love moving cards around and avoiding the dice. Micromanaging Direct Influence lets them do that and LoRE does away with that. And the LoRE influence system is less clear during the game.

People hate Active and Passive Conditions and don't understand the Strike Sequence. ICE said they would get rid of Active/Passive conditions. But guess what? Those rules are still there (some modification) but just are not labeled as "active/passive conditions." And the complexities of the strike sequence are still there. The complexities of the timing rules are still there. The targeting "issues" are still there. And you'll notice that some of the complex rules are gone in LoRE, like Annotation 25 and 26. But some of the problems that those complex rules solved still exist in LoRE. Of course LoRE was not finished, but it's clear that it's not in a better state than MECCG was.

Looking at the "simplfied" cards and rules you can see that they address some of the rules questions from MECCG but then they are sometimes more complex. But the card is more complex because the game is still just as complex as before, but now the rules question that arises 5% of the time is not baked into the card text, making the card more complex 95% of the time.

I don't see the other changes having that much impact on gameplay. If shuffling is too tedious, just cut the deck and call it good.

Thanks for the info. I’ll take a look at your link. If it’s already been tried and failed I can understand way the idea was left at that.

However a simple reprint of cards with more text to make their use clearer where necessary, and also the idea of limiting MP printed on cards I thought was probably a good idea.

Also players acting at the same time makes a lot of sense (so you can play resources drawn during your opponents hazard phase) and removes the requirement of a long event phase (I think you can add this into the game without issue if you want to, long events stay I play until the end of turn phase).

A complete overhaul is probably not the best approach but some ideas have merit and solve various gameplay issues with small adjustments. And also the cards would at least be errata free.