URD Errors - Post Here

Errata issued by the CoE, open discussion of candidate rules for errata, and submissions for the Annual Rules Vote.
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CDavis7M
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Re: URD Errors - Post Here

Post by CDavis7M »

Multiplayer rules are part of the original rules and multiplayer games were part of playtesting. Pallando's ability in multiplayer games was discussed by ICE playtesters. It works as intended. Each opponent discards face up.

Yangtze2000
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Re: URD Errors - Post Here

Post by Yangtze2000 »

:idea: Please include a Glossary of Terms entry for 'Environment'.

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CDavis7M
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Re: URD Errors - Post Here

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Yangtze2000 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:56 am
:idea: Please include a Glossary of Terms entry for 'Environment'.
What's your question about environments? There are actually no specific rules in the rulesbooks for environment cards, just the one CRF ruling taken from Annotation 26 in the METW Companion. "Environment" is a keyword and keywords have no inherent rules (except for Unique, corruption, weapon, shield, and helmet, and maybe a few others).
MELE pp.12 wrote:Several types of cards are referred to by the keyword included in the first few words of a card's text. For example, the text of a "spirit-magic" card starts with Magic. Spirit-magic; the text of a "wolf' card starts with Wolves; the text of a "Palantir" starts with Unique.
Palantir
.
Keywords do not necessarily carry any rules (though some do like Unique and Corruption). Keywords are used to determine if an effect in the game affects a card.
The only rule concerning the environment keyword is in the CRF under the M/H phase:
Once the effects of an environment card have been applied to a target during a given movement/hazard phase, that effect is not applied again to that target during the current turn.
This means that effects of cards having the environment keyword do not get re-triggered even though the passive condition is satisfied. For example, Foul Fumes will tap the site once during the M/H phase and will not re-tap the site should it become untapped during the site phase (e.g., by Dwarven Ring of Durin's Tribe, etc.).

But this is not merely a ruling to explain the existing rules (no such rule exists), it is a clarification from the Designers made in the original CRF. It is an expansion of original Annotation 26 in the METW Companion that stated that environments are only applied to the site/region type once each turn. By this ruling, all environment effects happen once a turn (not just those changing the site/region type). This ruling was included with Annotation 26 in the CRF at first and it still is.

Yangtze2000
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Re: URD Errors - Post Here

Post by Yangtze2000 »

I don't have a query about Environment. Anymore. But I wouldn't have had a query a lot sooner had there been a summary of what it is and does, much like the one you've just provided, in the Glossary of Terms. The glossary is there to help new players, I assume? If the criteria for an entry is that the term isn't dealt with elsewhere, then there's going to be a very thin glossary! :) As you say, a lot of the keywords are just markers that relate to other effects. Not so with Environment. It's a particular concept with some fairly key cards like Doors and Gates etc..

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CDavis7M
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Re: URD Errors - Post Here

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Yangtze2000 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:22 pm
The glossary is there to help new players, I assume?
The URD is not a good resource for new players. It is a reference for experienced players who already know how to play the game. The URD doesn't actually explain how to play the game, it's a list of rulings organized by concept. If a beginner trying to learn how to play the game from the URD would have a much harder time than if they just read the METW/MELE rules.

For instance, the URD section "PLAYING CHARACTER CARDS" doesn't even explain the fundamentals of how to play a character - like "You have a pool of 20 general influence points," "A follower does not require influence from your general pool, and he must remain stacked under the character exerting the direct influence," and when playing a character "You must place him at his home site or at any haven site". Some of these rules actually are in the URD but they are placed in the glossary and in other sections of the rules (for some reason the site the character is played at is discussed under Organizing Companies and not Playing Characters).

This same deficiency is apparent in other sections. The section on Corruption doesn't explain what a corruption point total is, you have to search through the glossary. The section on Playing Factions doesn't tell you what to do with the faction once its played. The URD doesn't explain region adjacency for region movement and the importance of sitepaths is obscured. It goes on and on.

Good resources for new players are the Challenge Deck/Balrog Rules Summary or "Ichabod Rewrites the Rules, the Wizard's Casual Companion, and the METW Players Guide. These were written by Ichabod except that the Casual Companion was written by Karina.

Yangtze2000
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Re: URD Errors - Post Here

Post by Yangtze2000 »

So the URD is neither an efficient and comprehensive rules reference, nor a tutorial at the moment.

An issue with tutorial materials is that they often use watered-down, beginner rulesets. However, new players are not necessarily inexperienced gamers, in fact if coming fresh to a 'dead' CCG they're likely to be quite the opposite, and many will want the full game from the word go. So I think besides a comprehensive, working rules reference we need a comprehensive, standard game, 'tutorial' rulebook. It seems the URD is closer to being the latter, and may best be developed in that direction, and the CRF could easily be the reference work.

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CDavis7M
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Re: URD Errors - Post Here

Post by CDavis7M »

There are complete tutorials of gameplay in The Wizards Starter Set and in the Companion books (drawing cards, selecting sites, moving, playing hazards, combat, play resources, rationales for making gameplay decisions, etc.).

Yangtze2000
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Re: URD Errors - Post Here

Post by Yangtze2000 »

Yes, but they're not up to date with the URD and CRF works-in-progress. That's what we all want, isn't it? One rulesbook to rule them all? :lol:

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CDavis7M
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Re: URD Errors - Post Here

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Yangtze2000 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:43 pm
Yes, but they're not up to date with the URD and CRF works-in-progress. That's what we all want, isn't it? One rulesbook to rule them all? :lol:
The Nine published rulesbooks this website keeps, the Seven thousand ICE rulings are ignored or destroyed, the Three new CoE rulings we know of. What then is this One Rulesbooks you desire so much? This One will never be found in Middle-earth. Long ago it rolled down the River, to the Sea. There let it lie until the End, till the world is mended.

People have been asking for One to Rule them all since 1997. I discussed this a bit on the Discord, but the main problem with creating such a document is that the rules changed a lot, even in very beginning. After Limited came the Unlimited rules with many clarifications and corrections. But when the expansions came, they added more rules and more questions, and more rulings. And then along came Lidless Eye with a new rulesbook that Incorporated a few of the changes. But unfortunately the Lidless Eye rulesbook left out many of the clarifications made in the Unlimited rules, and it left out some of the still correct rulings since Unlimited, and even some of the rulings from before Unlimited. So there was a bit of unnecessary confusion from the Lidless Eyes.

And then you got the Challenge Decks with the next "complete" set of rules. But it wasn't intended to be a complete rulesbook, and even though it incorporated some of the rule changes it unintentionally left a few relevant rules out while intentionally leaving more out. So it's not even like you can just read Lidless Eye, or the Challenge Deck rules and have a full understanding of the rules.

You have to go and read the The Wizards Unlimited rules, Lidless Eye, The Challenge Deck/Balrog rules, and the expansion rules. AND the Collected Rulings File. And even then there are some things left out of the CRF which are only in the Companion books, causing confusion for some. And the CRF was changed overtime, being consolidated and re-organized, removing old and well-known rulings and cutting other things out to reduce size. And there are outdated rulings left in there, causing confusion because the CRF was not really reorganized since the MELE changes. And there is no indication in the CRF itself which rulings are intended to override previous rules and rulings, you have to have read the original ruling.

And on top of all this, the rules are divided into "Starter Rules" and "Standard Rules". And there are a separate set of "Tournament Policy" rules that everyone follows. And of course the expansion rules. And often the headers will match between Starter and Standard rules, but with the expansion rules it's not always so clear how they fit in. And the rulings in the CRF leave out the question/context/example gameplay. So sometimes its not so clear how they apply.

Yangtze2000
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Re: URD Errors - Post Here

Post by Yangtze2000 »

CDavis7M wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:05 pm
The Nine published rulesbooks this website keeps, the Seven thousand ICE rulings are ignored or destroyed, the Three new CoE rulings we know of. What then is this One Rulesbooks you desire so much? This One will never be found in Middle-earth. Long ago it rolled down the River, to the Sea. There let it lie until the End, till the world is mended.
:D :D :D

The tale you tell is as long and as twisty as the Silmarillion! It's quite a backstory to a game. I was going to say 'what the hell have you guys been doing for the last 25 years that we still don't have a rulebook!', but now I stand in hushed respect for those that have fallen in the quest for the One.

Is there a case for starting again with a set of rules that reflect the way most veterans actually play the game, then complimenting that with a series of mix-and-match modules that you can swap out for various rule sections, those being the most popular alternative (mis)interpretations? That way everyone can have their own perfect set of MECCG rules. It could be quite tightly codified, so a game could be, 'right, we're playing the standard Wizards rules modified by modules D, F, and M.'

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CDavis7M
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Re: URD Errors - Post Here

Post by CDavis7M »

Yangtze2000 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:39 pm
I was going to say 'what the hell have you guys been doing for the last 25 years that we still don't have a rulebook!', but now I stand in hushed respect for those that have fallen in the quest for the One.
I'm not one of "those guys." I haven't been here long, a beginner really. But you can see that people have recognized the "problem" for a long time: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=907

While many agreed for the need, no one has done anything about it this proposal.

Still, not all the blood of Numenor is spent.
Dream Cards are being released
The Lure of Middle-earth is still held yearly
And Worlds too
And there are a few plenty of local playgroups keeping the terror of Morgul at bay.

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CDavis7M
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Re: URD Errors - Post Here

Post by CDavis7M »

URD wrote:PLAYING RINGWRAITH FOLLOWERS
If the following conditions are met, you may play a
Ringwraith Follower:
• Your Ringwraith is already in play.
• Your Ringwraith is at a Darkhaven or at the Ringwraith’s home site.
It should be "at the Ringwraith follower's home site" (MELE p. 58).

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