meaglyn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:28 pm
Whatever. Maybe you'd like to use that interpretation of the "if ... --" on the first victory condition?
I don't see a problem. The dash is in the first victory condition is used in the same way.
meaglyn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:28 pm
Your interpretation may have no mechanical flaws, but doesn't follow the rules as written.
The URD interpretation takes the victory condition out of context from the rest of the rules. The interpretation that you
must move
The One Ring to Barad-dur is inconsistent with the foundational description of the game in the MELE Rulesbook. And the URD's statement misrepresents the CoE Ruling alleged to support the statement.
My interpretation that the victory condition is "
Sauron is reunited with The One Ring" is a valid interpretation of the statement alone. But it also has a stronger basis than the URD's interpretation considering the entire Lidless Eye Rulesbook (since it is not fundamentally inconsistent), and it especially has a stronger basis when considering the game's design (since it lacks the mechanical and simulation flaws of the URD's interpretation).
The rules are written in English, not in conditional logic. There is no basis in the rules for transforming "A—B and C" in English to "C if and only if A" conditional logic. Especially since such an understanding does not even follow the requirements of conditional logic.
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Regardless of whether or not my interpretation is correct, this thread is about URD Errors and the URD's statement is an "error" (i.e., wrong in conduct or judgment) because it misrepresents its basis in the CoE Rulings. In all this discussion about my interpretation, no one has bothered to explain how the URD statement below is not a misrepresentation of CoE 48.
URD - Victory Conditions wrote:As a Ringwraith player, if you move The One Ring to Barad-dûr, Sauron is reunited with The One Ring and you win.
» “Yes, you do really have to move there with The One Ring. You can’t just have The One Ring there” [CoE 48].
» You are not at the site until the beginning of the Site Phase, therefore, you do not win until then [CoE 48].
CoE Netrep wrote:From: Chad Martin <chad@t...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 2:51 am
Subject: [NetRep] Rulings Digest #48
Being a minion, you have to go to Barad Dur with the ring and you win ?
thats all ?
*** That's it.
"That's it" means that nothing more needs to be done (e.g., you do not need to play cards to win the game as does a Wizard player)
"That's it" does not mean "Yes, you do really have to move there with The One Ring. You can’t just have The One Ring there" as claimed by the URD.
This misunderstanding is a result of the same fundamental flaw in reading comprehension found in other misunderstandings throughout the URD, and similarly found in the CoE rulings. The flaw is assuming that because the rules say "
something", that the rules somehow suggest that the absolute restriction that the "
something" can only ever happen in that way. This flaw appears in the misunderstands on Passive Conditions, the misunderstanding of the on-guard rules, and the misunderstandings of the restrictions on playing resources in the Site Phase.