Council of Elrond

I am in favour of making a landslide change to the overall rules.

What I want to do is clear out any problems with:

Cards that require a site so that they can function.

For instance:

Winds of Wrath
Playable only if Doors of Night is in play. Replace the new site card of a moving company with a Coastal Sea [c] in its site path with a card from your location deck that has a Coastal Sea [c] in its site path. "The winds of wrath came driving him, and blindly in the foam he fled from west to east and errandless..."-LotRII

The rule change I am proposing, may seem drastic, but it's really not.

I am going to work on the wording but in essence, the rules should state:

When building your location deck, you may include 1 copy of every site card in the game, and as usual any number of Havens per your alignment. You are tho, still restricted to their use per the original alignment guidelines, unless a card allows you or requires a player to use a site outside of those restrictions.

So in summary, Location Decks, will get built, but if you have some sites that you NEED to fullfill Hazard request, for instance, you will have them. And once again you won't be able to use some per the standard guidelines.

---===---

Some thoughts come to mind such as, Double Usages of an already visited site, and then using the other alignment. HMM

This is just the starting of THIS TOPIC. I feel this maybe a useful global solution, BUT if someone feels like it's more headache than it's worth then we'll scrap it!

It's just an idea

I'm not sure what the problem to be solved is. Presumably we don't want players to be able to move to the sites where the hazard has sent their opponent. And we don't want players using sites that are being used by agents. And if the site is in the discard, so be it. I think these are intended trade-offs and not unintended consequences.

Here is an example.

Cast from the Order

Cast from the Order wrote:Playable on a Fallen-wizard. Make a roll and add the Fallen-wizard's stage points. If the result is less than 16, discard this card. Otherwise, place this card with the Fallen-wizard. The Fallen-wizard's player must use minion sites for Border-holds , Free-holds , and hero Havens . Also, the Fallen-wizard's company is overt.

If an opposing FW does not include Minion Sites, this card is useless, unless the provision of, "provide one for them." But then I would have to be a Minion Player or Fallen Player myself and include them in my deck.

But in essence, a Hero player cannot include Minion sites so, even if there is a "provide one for them" provision, that CAN'T... because they themselves can't put Minion sites in.

So if you as a Hero player wanted to include some Minion copies of some Free-holds, you could. You couldn't use them, unless you played Cast from the Order, but snarky (or sharky) Wizards couldn't get around Cast from the Order like that...

Make sense?

There are probably from my quick recollection like 10 cards that have Situational Site Alignment problems...

My goal is always to make ALL the cards playable, and useable, if something is worthless because someone can say, "Well I won't include these Sites in my Location Deck and I am safe!" That's NOT intended...

I think I agree with the idea - that the opponent shouldn't (originally wrote should on accident) be able to get around restrictions because they simply don't have the right alignment sites.

But is it really true that a FW could continue to move to hero after Cast From the Order is played on them, simply by not having the corresponding minion version in their play deck? I would assume that if the FW doesn't include minion Minas Tirith then they could not move to Minas Tirith at all. But what if they were already there at the moment Cast was played? I'm not sure, but I would argue that they couldn't use it (like how FW cannot play hero resources at minion sites).

But I also don't think a player should be able to duplicate sites they have used in order to provide it to their opponent per some hazard requirement.

Haha, that's a twist I never have thought of!!

If they DON'T have the site they can't move there!! Genius!

But there would be a problem with a company at a or a then do they move back to a haven? or...

Just gets tricky...

Presumably the FW player traveled to the hero version to play a hero resource. I don't think they should be able to play a hero resource and tap the hero site with Cast From the Order in play, just because they lack the minion version of the site.

Still, in 2019, we should just be able to proxy the site (using a phone, etc), if required.

rezwits wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:07 pmIf they DON'T have the site they can't move there!!

^^ Agree

rezwits wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:07 pm But there would be a problem with a company at a or a then do they move back to a haven? or...

Cast from the Order wrote:The Fallen-wizard's player must use minion sites for Border-holds , Free-holds , and hero Havens

My 2c on this -

Since Cast from the Order does not explicitly require the player to immediately swap their Hero FH, BH, or Haven Site with the Minion site, (IMO) they can still have the Hero site in play, but cannot "use" it. I would consider entering that site or playing any character/resource that requires the Hero version of that site (Choice of Luthien, Paths of the Dead, etc.) as "using" it.

However, as we've seen, what constitutes the "use" of a card raises rules questions all the time. I think the above interpretation is what was intended by the hazard at least.

Returning the party to their previous site or a haven creates more problems:
A) Party might not have moved that turn
B) Party came from a different Hero FH/BH/Haven
C) Party might not be within legal region movement distance of a Wizardhaven

Moriquendi wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 7:56 pmMy 2c on this -

Since Cast from the Order does not explicitly require the player to immediately swap their Hero FH, BH, or Haven Site with the Minion site, (IMO) they can still have the Hero site in play, but cannot "use" it.

MEWH wrote:The play of certain cards can change the type of sites that your companies may use (e.g. Plotting Ruin, Heart Grown Cold, etc.). When this happens, immediately exchange any affected site cards already in play with the corresponding site cards of the proper type.

Ah, good catch. I guess a FW player would be required to have to all versions of any site they plan to use in their location deck then.