Organizing companies beyond General Influence
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:10 pm
Rules:
Elrond (10 mind and 4 DI) uses Vilya (+6 DI) and controls Thranduil (9 mind)
Gandalf (10 DI) controls Glorfindel (8 mind)
Legolas (6 mind, 2 DI) with Elf-Stone (+2 DI) controls Elrohir (4 mind)
There is 4 free GI. No character was played this turn (e.g., Elrond used Vilya last turn as well).
Question - Can Thranduil be moved out from Elrond's DI into GI? This would exceed the GI. The MELE rules state "If you have enough unused general influence points, you may move a follower from direct influence to general influence." Does this rule mean that (1) you could NOT move a follower from GI to DI at all OR does it mean that (2) you could move a follower from DI to GI, exceeding the GI, but then you would be required to discard the character at the end of the organization phase (or return them to your hand if they were played this turn)? I think the MELE rule is not the complete picture, especially considering the CRF stating that company composition happens "at the same time." One reason you might do this is because Elf-Song is in play (while Elf-song is in play, no character at a Haven may be discarded or returned to its owner's hand for any reason).
I couldn't find any rulings on this specific point.
Scenario 2 - Same as above except that Elrond used Vilya last turn but not this turn
Elrond does not play Vilya and only has 4 DI. Presumably he cannot still control Thranduil despite the rule "If you have enough unused general influence points, you may move a follower from direct influence to general influence." So then, is Thranduil moved to GI?
Scenario 3 - Same as above
Can Glorfindel and Thranduil swap, such that Elrond controls Glorfindel and Gandalf controls Thranduil? (Again, despite the MELE rule). This seems OK because company composition happens "at the same time" per the CRF.
Scenario 4 - Same as above
Can Glorfindel be moved to GI and then can Gandalf play a new character under his DI? Or, can the character be played under GI and moved to DI?
MELE wrote: Mind: A character’s mind determines how many influence points (a Ringwraith’s general influence points or a character’s direct influence points) are required to keep this character in play.
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You have a pool of 20 general influence points. At the end of your organization phase, the total mind attributes of your characters in play (not counting followers) must be less than or equal to 20.
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If a character directly influencing a follower is removed from play, the follower remains in play and does not immediately count against general influence. However, during your next organization phase, you must discard the follower, place the follower under the control of another character in his company with enough available direct influence, or place the follower under the control of general influence (if enough is available).
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If you have enough unused general influence points, you may move a follower from direct influence to general influence (or vice versa) during your organization phase.
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You may play a non-Ringwraith character card. You must place him at his home site or at any Darkhaven site. If you do not have enough general influence or direct influence to control the character by the end of your organization phase, then the character is returned to your hand.
Scenario 1 - At Rivendell, during the organization phaseCRF - Organizing Companies wrote:Company composition changes that you choose to make, including bringing a character into play, must all be done at the same time during the organization phase. During this time no other actions may be taken.
Elrond (10 mind and 4 DI) uses Vilya (+6 DI) and controls Thranduil (9 mind)
Gandalf (10 DI) controls Glorfindel (8 mind)
Legolas (6 mind, 2 DI) with Elf-Stone (+2 DI) controls Elrohir (4 mind)
There is 4 free GI. No character was played this turn (e.g., Elrond used Vilya last turn as well).
Question - Can Thranduil be moved out from Elrond's DI into GI? This would exceed the GI. The MELE rules state "If you have enough unused general influence points, you may move a follower from direct influence to general influence." Does this rule mean that (1) you could NOT move a follower from GI to DI at all OR does it mean that (2) you could move a follower from DI to GI, exceeding the GI, but then you would be required to discard the character at the end of the organization phase (or return them to your hand if they were played this turn)? I think the MELE rule is not the complete picture, especially considering the CRF stating that company composition happens "at the same time." One reason you might do this is because Elf-Song is in play (while Elf-song is in play, no character at a Haven may be discarded or returned to its owner's hand for any reason).
I couldn't find any rulings on this specific point.
Scenario 2 - Same as above except that Elrond used Vilya last turn but not this turn
Elrond does not play Vilya and only has 4 DI. Presumably he cannot still control Thranduil despite the rule "If you have enough unused general influence points, you may move a follower from direct influence to general influence." So then, is Thranduil moved to GI?
Scenario 3 - Same as above
Can Glorfindel and Thranduil swap, such that Elrond controls Glorfindel and Gandalf controls Thranduil? (Again, despite the MELE rule). This seems OK because company composition happens "at the same time" per the CRF.
Scenario 4 - Same as above
Can Glorfindel be moved to GI and then can Gandalf play a new character under his DI? Or, can the character be played under GI and moved to DI?