Manuel wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 9:44 am
I'm not sure about the intentions of ICE when they designed this card and by any means I'd like to bring this discussion here.
I think the intentions are important to any solution to this apparent problem. It seems like the River errata was a way to make Rangers important. In the beginning mere presence of a single Ranger was sufficient to bypass River's effect: "
A company without a ranger that has moved to this site this turn must do nothing during its site phase." However, tapping is the fundamental limiting mechanic of the game so the original card wasn't interesting. With Untapping and Redirection being themes in
The Dragons, it made sense to have Rangers tap in the
Unlimited River erratum that came along with the expansion. Now (or then), Warriors tap for combat and hopefully MP, Scouts tap to avoid combat, Sages tap for Marvels Told, and Rangers tap against
River. It's just what they all do.
1 River can be mitigated by 1 Resource. And Rangers don't even have to play a resource to cancel the first River, unlike like Scouts vs Creatures. Seems fair but you actually have to include these untapping/redirection resources in your deck. Why is it not competitive to include 3 Butterflies VS 3 Rivers? Are Risky Blow and Dodge not competitive? There's this
variety of resources that have so many uses if people wanted variety.
Apparently these resources are not competitive so forget about them. But if someone is saving up 2-3 Rivers and Mouth in their hand, then surely they could have come up with a different combo more devastating than just "do nothing." Corruption + Balance of Things + Roving Eye; Dragon's Desolation + Smaug + Prowess of Age; Awaken/Arouse + Incite + Tidings of Bold Spies; 3 Assassins; 2 Chilled Elf-Lords, etc. So then why does River feel so bad? The glaring difference to me is that River involves no luck or chance. Some hazards require luck in the company moving through a particular type of region or to a particular type of site. Some hazards involve the chance of a dice roll. Other hazards without luck or chance are less punishing. Snowstorm is also strong but it requires Doors and it can be canceled. River can always be played, it's always powerful, and no one has butterflies anyway, so that's why people like using River. I get it. So maybe River should be balanced?
As for the proposal, my understanding is that this game doesn't use the "
cannot be duplicated" mechanic to solve this type of gameplay problem. Plus, if a Ranger taps during the M/H phase for River's effect, River's effect is no longer in play per the "cannot be duplicated" rules, and so it can be played on the same site again. Combined with the restrictions on activating resources between the M/H phase and the site phase, what is "cannot be duplicated" really accomplishing? The effect would need to be something like "
until the end of the turn, River cannot be played on the site," and this game just doesn't really include effects like this on short events.
Restricting the site path or adding a dice-roll are too far removed, but I think River would be in line with other roadblock hazards if it were an "
environment," able to be cancelled by Twilight and Gates of Morning.
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By the way, are we really sure that River is
that important to the player community. Maybe the players would rather
confirm basic rulings from 1996 or
rewrite the rules and cards for apparent internal consistency on Dragons, Orc Mail, influence attempts against Fallen Wizards, Witch-king of Angmar, Elven cloak, Wizardhaven, Gollum's Fate, detainment attacks, Treason the Greatest Foe, Agent deck construction, Farmer Maggot, Incite Denizens, They Ride Together, RW player Deck Construction, FW Site use, "playing a card," The under-gates, and The Ithil-stone.