Council of Elrond

The Dragons: Alert the Folk
Rarity: Uncommon, Precise: U2

Resource: Short-event

Playable on a company facing a Dragon or Drake attack (not Eärcaraxë). Discard from your hand and one or two factions playable at sites in Northern Rhovanion, Iron Hills, Woodland Realm, or Anduin Vales. All characters facing the attack gain a bonus to their prowess equal to the total Marshaling point values (as printed on their cards) of the factions discarded.

Proposed erratum:

"Playable on a company facing a Dragon or Drake attack (not Eärcaraxë). Discard from your hand and one or two factions playable at sites in Northern Rhovanion, Iron Hills, Woodland Realm, or Anduin Vales. All characters facing the attack gain a bonus to their prowess against the attack equal to the total Marshaling point values (as printed on their cards) of the factions discarded."

Change in bold.

Rationale:

Without the change the card could be read as giving persistent bonus to prowess. Especially if compared to other short-events that give bonuses against attack.

Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:56 pmWithout the change the card could be read as giving persistent bonus to prowess.

I don't think a "persistent bonus" this is the right presumption. A short-events effects are immediately implemented and some effects for a period stated on the card. If a card does not state a time period for the duration of the effect, then the presumption is that the effect does not last at all (rather than it lasting indefinitely).

Alert the Folk already states a period: "facing an attack." The prowess effect lasts during this period. I don't see any need to repeat this using errata.

How long lasts effect of Dragon's Terror?

Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:59 pm How long lasts effect of Dragon's Terror?

It doesn't. The effects are immediately implemented.

Characters tapped in result of Dragon's Terror are tapped only against the one attack?

Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:01 am Characters tapped in result of Dragon's Terror are tapped only against the one attack?

They are just tapped from the untapped position to the tapped position. They are not tapped against an attack, or against only one attack, or with respect to any attack.

When Dragon's Terror is played, dice are rolled and a character might be tapped depending on the roll. That's it. The card is resolved and discarded. End of story.

So at least in this case it is visible that "in which period it may be played/occurs" (e.g. while facing attack) does not mean that "it lasts only during the period" (e.g. only against/during facing the attack).

Look at Our Own Wolves, The Dwarves are Upon You! AND Words of Power and Terror.

Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:02 am So at least in this case it is visible that "in which period it may be played/occurs" (e.g. while facing attack) does not mean that "it lasts only during the period" (e.g. only against/during facing the attack).

Well, in this case (the effect of Dragon's Terror) -- it doesn't last at all. It's not an on-going effect. Some effects are on-going and some aren't. You can tell by how the effect works. Some effects change the state of the game -- it just happens and then it's done. Other effects do not change the state of the game and so the effect must be on-going. This is why cards like Fast Asleep must be played when they actually apply to the situation that they affect--there is no need for record keeping beyond what is currently happening in the game. And also the game-design cost balancing mentioned before.

Konrad Klar wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:02 am Look at Our Own Wolves, The Dwarves are Upon You! AND Words of Power and Terror.

I think you may be overcomplicating things. It seems like you're looking for the type of specificity that would be required by a computer program. But the game isn't designed to be run by a computer and the details of how these cards effects would be implemented are unimportant to humans because the understanding is present in the card text.

Come By Night applies to all automatic attacks. Some effects only apply to 1 attack. Some effects are open ended. There is no need to get caught up by the "duration" or whether the effect is on going or not. The card text tells you the situation in which the effect applies. Some effects change the game state by moving a position of a card. Others do not. A change to a position of a card cannot be undone without making another change to the game state whereas an on-going effect can be undone without touching anything. A player cannot take an action without the game specifically telling them that they can do so. I think that is the only point that needs to be recognized.

CDavis7M wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:46 pm I think you may be overcomplicating things. It seems like you're looking for the type of specificity that would be required by a computer program. But the game isn't designed to be run by a computer and the details of how these cards effects would be implemented are unimportant to humans because the understanding is present in the card text.

As is, the game is not ready to be translated to program that would enforce rules.
As is the game is now, such program would change prowess of some allies or characters only by time they are facing some attack (Our Own Wolves, The Dwarves are Upon You!), or until end of turn (Words of Power and Terror), or for infinitely long time (Alert the Folk).

Even worse, not leaving much work for some human interpreters.
Indeed, Dragon's Terror, does not leave much room for interpretation in question how long tapping effect (result) works.

An effect that taps a character is different from an on-going effect that requires the character to stay tapped.