Bounty of the Hoard

Errata issued by the CoE, open discussion of candidate rules for errata, and submissions for the Annual Rules Vote.
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Konrad Klar
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The Dragons: Bounty of the Hoard
Rarity: Common, Precise: C2

Resource: Short-event

Playable during the site phase. One minor or major item may be played at a tapped site that contains a hoard. "'Mr. Baggins!' he cried. 'Here is the first payment of your reward! Cast off your old coat and put on this!'" -Hob
I propose the following erratum:

Playable during the site phase on a company at a tapped site that contains a hoard. One minor or major item may be played. "'Mr. Baggins!' he cried. 'Here is the first payment of your reward! Cast off your old coat and put on this!'" -Hob

Rationale:

Currently the card does not have any playability conditions except "Playable during the site phase". It is possible to play it effectively for no effect. Because potentially any action ultimately may have an effect, depending on what will happen between its declaration and resolution.
Even if there is no tapped site in play that contains hoard at declaration, there may be such site at resolution (something that will tap the site and Dwarven Hoard in response).
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CDavis7M
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I
Konrad Klar wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:12 pm Even if there is no tapped site in play that contains hoard at declaration, there may be such site at resolution (something that will tap the site and Dwarven Hoard in response).
This goes against:
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Konrad Klar
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So Drowning Seas may not be played for 1st effect on company that does not have any item and is controlling player currently does not have any cards in hand?
The Wizards: Drowning Seas
Rarity: Uncommon, Precise: U

Hazard: Short-event

Environment. Playable on a company that moved this turn to a site with a [-me_cs-] in its site path. Target company loses one item of its choice and its player must randomly discard two cards from his hand. Alternatively, if Doors of Night is in play, target company must immediately return to its site of origin.
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CDavis7M
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Konrad Klar wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 12:16 am So Drowning Seas may not be played for 1st effect on company that does not have any item and is controlling player currently does not have any cards in hand?
The Wizards: Drowning Seas
Rarity: Uncommon, Precise: U

Hazard: Short-event

Environment. Playable on a company that moved this turn to a site with a [-me_cs-] in its site path. Target company loses one item of its choice and its player must randomly discard two cards from his hand. Alternatively, if Doors of Night is in play, target company must immediately return to its site of origin.
I wonder if there is something more to your question but seems like Drowning Seas could not be played.
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Konrad Klar
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So you are consistent.
I think that Drowning Seas may be played in such circumstances and such play did not become valid since MEAS and Dark Tryst. Was valid since beginning.
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Thuarval
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CDavis7M wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 4:05 am
Konrad Klar wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 12:16 am So Drowning Seas may not be played for 1st effect on company that does not have any item and is controlling player currently does not have any cards in hand?
The Wizards: Drowning Seas
Rarity: Uncommon, Precise: U

Hazard: Short-event

Environment. Playable on a company that moved this turn to a site with a [-me_cs-] in its site path. Target company loses one item of its choice and its player must randomly discard two cards from his hand. Alternatively, if Doors of Night is in play, target company must immediately return to its site of origin.
I wonder if there is something more to your question but seems like Drowning Seas could not be played.
From the wording it seems clear that the only condition is that the company must have a [-me_cs-] in its site path, and that if that condition is met, the card may be played. For me the question is more whether both effects must be able to be carried out, or if, for example, there is no minor item, but they have 2 cards in hand to discard, can it be played for that effect (or vice versa), since technically it is not being played for no effect at that point.
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Konrad Klar
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Thuarval wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:56 pm For me the question is more whether both effects must be able to be carried out, or if, for example, there is no minor item, but they have 2 cards in hand to discard, can it be played for that effect (or vice versa), since technically it is not being played for no effect at that point.
If some choice is part of main effect, then the choice is not done at declaration.
If some entity is not specified at declaration of an action (but is affected by the action), then the entity is not a target of the action.
If an action (in practice text of a card) does not say that some entity must be present in given place (in play, in company etc.) and the entity is not target of the action, then the entity is not active condition of the action.

Compare Drowning Seas with Tower Raided and Bounty of the Hoard with Hoard Well-searched.
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dirhaval
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What about ire of the east? HWS can be played to get out of the hand as a decoy. Then make site have information, play ring item, untap site, ringlore?
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Konrad Klar
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Player can play Twilight in response to and on other Twilight played by him in the same chain of effect. If FW player wants to play Ire of the East in response to and on Hoard Well-searched played by him in the same chain of effect, the situation is no different.
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