Wounded by Undead or Dragon

[Konrad Klar]

Dark Enchantment. Playable on a non-Wizard character wounded by an Undead attack this turn; does not count against the hazard limit. Target character can never become untapped while bearing this card. Any effect that would move him to an untapped state makes him tapped instead. Cannot be duplicated on a given character. During the organization phase, a sage in the target character's company may tap to attempt to remove this card. Make a roll (or draw a #): if the result is greater than 7, discard this card.

Ok. Here is stated that target must be wounded by Undead this turn. But here:

The body of one non-Wizard character wounded by a Dragon attack is lowered by 1 unil the end of the turn. Alternatively, lowers the body of one non-Wizard character wounded by a manifestation of Itangast by 2 until the end of turn or lowers the body of each non-Wizard character in a company facing an attack by a manifestation of Itangast by one until the end of the turn. Cannot be duplicated on a given character or company.

effect lasts until end of turn, but target character must be merely "wounded by a Dragon attack" and it is not mentioned "when". Can Subtlety of Guile by played on character wounded by a Dragon attack in one of his previous turns?

[Wacho]

I'd say no. In general there is no memory in the game. The one exception I can think of is King Under The Mountain.

[Konrad Klar]

Minion Scroll of Isildur does not remember that it has been stored at Barad-dur? The White Tree + Wizard's Trove does not remember at which Wizardhaven Sapling of The White Tree was stored (and which Wizardhaven is now protected)?

[Sauron]

That stupid rule is one of the most misquoted rules.

[Bandobras Took]

Which stupid rule? I can think of several.

[zarathustra]

In general there is no memory in the game.

That one.

First: it's not a rule, but a ruling (i.e., something a previous netrep said, which is taken as true but could be overturned; not something from a rules insert).

Second: the full text of the ruling is that cards that are not in play have no memory. I.e., the Ghouls in my discard pile don't remember whether I sent them after Frodo or Beorn. Cards that are still in play in general do remember how they were played (e.g., Thrain remembers that he helped kill Scatha, and so he can become King at any point in the game after the slaughter).

[Bandobras Took]

In that case, can one say that if a character is currently healed but has been wounded in its history by a dragon, Subtlety of Guile may be played?

[Konrad Klar]

Actual rule sounds:

Cards in the discard pile do not remember how they were played.

I think that ruling mentioned by zarathustra may be useful for interpretation of such action as playing Returned Beyond All Hope on Elf creature removed from play by Aware of Their Ways.

[zarathustra]

It seems I misremembered the rule vs. ruling status. In any case, the 2nd point stands.

[Wacho]

I wasn't saying it was a rule as from the rulebook, but it is a pretty general guideline. For instance Knowledge of the Enemy was ruled such that you cannot play it in a subsequent turn to an agent attack because of the lack of memory.

What is your mechanism for keeping track of how the character was wounded anyway? You are depending completely on player memory and if this is several turns later that could easily be faulty.

[dirhaval]

One thing to keep in mind,
MEDM came after METD, so maybe they were aware of Guile's ambiguty, and fixed it with Endles Whispers.

-William