discussion - Middle-earth: The Sunlands

[Vastor Peredhil]

Before actually posting what I got in stall here, I would like others to give up their ideas for this kind of expansion.

some key questions must be answered:

Do we stick to the flawed ICE continent?

If not, which map can we agree on?

How far south (& east) should we move with this expansion?

Should we try to contact (again) the creator of this site:
http://baramir.ifrance.com/

So far I have been thinking stuff over with William Danchus, from the FATE perspective.

mfg Nicolai

p.s. as a teaser I added the MESL 3 which contains only 4 sites & 4 characters, based on Williams and my ideas as well as stuff from fan-modules.

it is to be found in Vastor's Development Zone

[dirhaval]

Do we stick to the flawed ICE continent?

The benefit is that we already have it made and the modules
that give ideas for resources/cards and mechanics.
Why is it flawed?

If not, which map can we agree on?

There are other maps?

How far south (& east) should we move with this expansion?

One thing I am doing for FATE is keeping this area of lesser value, as it not so many greater item sites and dragons. Just my humble view. I like to keep it north of the yellow mountains, so that Court of Ardor can have their own expansion. With east, how about just to that long river on the eastern border of Chey? or just up to the Ered Hamal.


What about a Desert region?
The Northern Wast has double wildernesses instead of SNOW or ICE regions, which helps keep it simple. For me, I can see Rain-drake in Lindalf but not in the desert. So, how about treating with the deserts like they do with coastal seas? Maybe requiring a resource like 'Great Ship or Caravan' to travel across it.
One option is to make the great desert into several regions, so to require at least 2 turns to move across instead of two or three large regions.

Now, if we do have a few regions for the desert, I like to make hazards for it like those MENW hazards (snow-blindness).

Now, how can we sell MESL? How is it better than NW Middle-Earth? Is the many factions? Multiple ring sites? How about unique items left behind by the Numererons only playable there?

For FATE, I just had to have a 'finish' MESL to make some decks. Now, I am waiting until we get a good MESL set together to travel there again. I only placed one dragon in Harad and one in near Chey, so not many hoard sites there. I was thinking to putting a Ghost Ship site in the Bay of Ormal, that can let you travel to any other coastal sea region on the next turn if you discard a killed undead creature or something like that.
So, I will be using MESL of we build in Vastor's Zone.

About that french site: I saw the webpage too. You can contact them if you like. I am wondering how they made the map.

just some thoughts.

[Vastor Peredhil]

Hi William,

Why is it flawed?

Well it is to small, and has many good looking but un-geographic features
(the bay of Bozisha-dar comes to mind)

There are other maps?

http://www.othermindsmagazine.com/

there is the most detailed map to be created once and for all

One thing I am doing for FATE is keeping this area of lesser value, as it not so many greater item sites and dragons.

true, that is how I see it too; same with Northern Waste not too many greater hoards sites, rather create some thematic special items)

I like to keep it north of the yellow mountains, so that Court of Ardor can have their own expansion. With east, how about just to that long river on the eastern border of Chey? or just up to the Ered Hamal.

lets make up to Ered Hamal, south to Yellow Mountains (but on a new map this wil still be huge), and one region west of the bay of Ormal (there will to many new sites and factions in the area if you incluede region adjacent to the Bay of Ormal, rather have an extra set for that)

So, how about treating with the deserts like they do with coastal seas? Maybe requiring a resource like 'Great Ship or Caravan' to travel across it. One option is to make the great desert into several regions, so to require at least 2 turns to move across instead of two or three large regions.

I like to do an new region symbol, and have special movement cards as well (one should be Haradwaith); also I did a lot with home sites of the characters, (as in MENW), so the character has a home site in the Haradwaith he does not tap while traveling with desert symbol otherwise he does (we keep that on the sites also, as with minion overt traveling coastal seas)

Now, how can we sell MESL? How is it better than NW Middle-Earth? Is the many factions? Multiple ring sites? How about unique items left behind by the Numererons only playable there?

I would like to go with the legacy of numenor and the home of 3 ringwraith, Witch-king (as it was Umbar), Adunaphel (Umbar later vamag, still later in Chelkar) and Akhorahil of course

well the french guy for the map doesn't respond at all, so we cannot go there further

mfg Nicolai

I will be back later, but this is a good start

[dirhaval]

Ok. I agree about the boundary to begin working on the MESL regions.

Also like the new region symbol and character tapping for movement rule too.

-Dirhaval

[Axo]

I play on a self made map which include Harad. We first tried to make a map going as south as beyond the Yellow Mountains (we first wanted to include the ICE Court of Ardor elements) but it was useless and the first map was too big.
So our actual map is marked off by the Yellow Mountains (south), Harshandatt région (south east), Ered Ormal (east) and the sea (west).

We have 10 more régions :

Umbar (all land around the city)
Menfalas (all the coastal land south to Umbar, as far as Raj)
Raj (Bozisha Dar région)
Tulwang (all coastal land south to Raj)
Arid Lands (all land near and north the Yellow Mountains, between Tulwang and Sirayn)
Sirayn (all land around the city of Tul Hurar)
Harshandatt (all coastal land north of Sirayn)
Lurmsakun (all land north-west to Harshandatt, passing along the Ered Ormal to Khand)
Mirror of Fire (large desert between Raj, Arid Lands, Sirayn and Harshandatt)
Dune Sea (very large desert between Umbar, Menfalas, Raj, Mirror of Fire and Lurmsakun)

Hero Haven is the Great Oasis (Mirror of Fire)
Minion Haven is the Ny Chennacatt fortress (Arid Lands)

We added 3 underdeeps sites too :

Stone-deeps (beneath the Bar Falin stronghold - Arid Lands)
Opal-deeps (beneath Galadhros ruins - Arid Lands)
Fuinur-deeps (beneath Fuinur's Well - Mirror of Fire)

And we included 3 dragons :

Vaurak (Dune Sea)
Merkampa (Lurmsakun)
Niocupa (Tulwang)

[Axo]

Precision :

All regions are wilderness except Sirayn and Raj (border lands).
Mirror of Fire counts as 2 wilderness.
Dune Sea counts as 3 wilderness.

By the way all wilderness are "palms" instead of "pines". Only non-specific men and orcs (not trolls !) hazards playable on "pine wilderness" are also playable on " palm wilderness. We modified some creatures hazards to fit this new distinction (like sand drakes).

Hoping it'll help.

[Vastor Peredhil]

Just to let you all know

Eric worked like dog to bring us the Sun-lands map ( with a tiny help from myself), and I a added it into the metw/sededitor folder for SVN version

hopefully we will have it in the GCCG program soon (so any who does know how co create the color coded maps for GCCG give us a hand)

yours Nicolai

[Vastor Peredhil]

Hi all,

just to let you all know, we have majorly redone the Sunlands sets, it now has 261 cards. We added several maps which include all regions south to the Yellow Mountains, but not all regions bordering on Ormal Bay.

The set now has a good guerrilla warfare feel to it, with the major struggle in the Bellarkar region.

Still we could use some help from others . . .

yours Nicolai

[dirhaval]

My preliminary review of MESL is this: Great specific territory with its own flavor.
Harad is not a place to travel through, but to stay. You did that with the desert region
reduction to movement feature. Allies must be played to reduce this restriction, which
again focuses on the territory. I like the number and types of factions.
I was expecting to see some permanent-events like Sun-Lord (e.g. King Under the Mountain)
and Blade of Masra resources. I will provide my ideas on these cards.

I was expecting to see Ny Chennacatt as a darkhaven instead of Bozisha-Dar. But
your method makes it a mission to rebuild that fortress, which again makes it
a specific flavor. I was expecting more agents in Harad. Again, a small point
that needs balance with other territories with some uncharted by us.

oh yes, About those slayer characters. You have my attention on them.
hmm. Every MP of slayer faction equals 5 mind of slayer character not under DI or GI
but cannot make any "attempts", no allies, and no transfer of items - just a hunter?
I am sure you already have ideas on them.

I'll write more later targeting each card type.

[Vastor Peredhil]

While the Northern Waste is progressing nicely...

I wanted to let you know that we all worked on my SL cards to make them more playable
The "quest" cards in the set will be turned intoo real Quest cards as time permits

just take a look at cardnum where more and more changes will appear of the the next weeks

yours Nicolai