DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Moderators: Thorsten the Traveller, Vastor Peredhil

Which expansion should be finished next?

Middle-earth: The Great Wyrms
10
22%
Middle-earth: Nine for Mortal Men
1
2%
Middle-earth: The Northern Waste
17
38%
Middle-earth: Return of the Shadow
14
31%
Middle-earth: Treason of Isengard
2
4%
Middle-earth: War of the Ring
1
2%
other (post below)
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 45

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Thorsten the Traveller
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DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Tue May 21, 2019 11:39 am

After release of ME: The Necromancer and its enthusiastic reception, many people ask: what will be the next set?!

In the poll you can indicate which set you would like to see finished first.
For all dreamcards and the sets they are grouped in, see cardnum: http://www.cardnum.net/cards.
I did not list all current expansions (see below), but you can choose 'other' and indicate in a post specifically which one.

For a list of all expansions and their content, see here


Now for some editorial comments about creating dreamcard expansions: it is a lot of work! (and we hope we're getting better at it).

1) We do not want to just create new cards, we want them to work in various ways.

Of course the new characters, items, hazards must be cool, and they freshen up the game by virtue of being new.
But we also want them to add new dimensions, create new plays and strategies, or strengthen existing ones, and help cards that are currently underplayed.

This requires analysis of the game, to search for imbalance and shortcomings, things that don't work smoothly, or are simply fun-killers.
And analysis comes through playtesting, building many types of decks and pitting them against each other.

2) The game is already complex, without adding more cards and rules. We notice that even for many old-time players increasing the cardpool takes time to handle. In the (g)olden days, 400 new cards per year was no trouble. Now even 1 set per 4 years is tough to digest. We all have busier lives and brains...
It is easy to invent a whole world of new cards, but difficult to keep it limited to the cool and essential stuff. We don't want to end up like Magic: the Gathering, drowning players in new cards.

3) Many indicate they rather see new cards operating within the standard map, so as to keep it familiar. We've been slowly introducing a few new regions, for this reason and another, that territorial expansions might create issues with the amount of interaction in the game. CvCC, influencing, spying, that's all tricky on the larger map. Territorial expansions must somehow be fit into the DC game, perhaps restricting them to scenario play.

4) To thoroughly enjoy a dream-card expansion, it needs thematic coherence. We endeavour to group cards that are thematically connected. This often requires reshuffling between sets of loose ideas to see what works best. Sometimes a cool, useful, or even badly needed card might not fit in the 'next' expansion, and sometimes we must invent extra cards to fill up holes in the set.


All in all, there's a lot of work to complete before releasing a new set (not even mentioning the search for artwork and contacting artists).
More importantly, even if we could finish a set within a year, that's not a smart thing to do. The new cards need to 'land', be accepted and accommodated into the game. A new metagame can arrise, with powerful decks and unforeseen tricks, which makes meccg again a live game like it used to be.

Everybody can help out here, by playing games and giving us feedback!
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

Darksatin
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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by Darksatin » Tue May 21, 2019 1:31 pm

Hello,
I have voted for "Return of the Shadow", but I think that cards from "Kingdom of the North" should be incorporated to this expansion (mainly the sites in Eriador).

sigurd
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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by sigurd » Tue May 21, 2019 1:46 pm

Hello,
Return of the Shadow for me too, the first of the three "Lord of the Rings" expansions and later Treason of Isengard and War of the Ring ?

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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by Vastor Peredhil » Tue May 21, 2019 8:33 pm

I am wondering in how far people voting, know what is in the set, please take your time to view the latest versions of each set, then decide

I voted NW since it is the DC I started with 23 years ago ;)

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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by Kjeld » Tue May 21, 2019 9:13 pm

I voted NW since it is the DC I started with 23 years ago
That makes a lot of sense. The NW set is certainly a thematically satisfying setting, and the cards represent a nice mix of minion and hero resources, with some new options for balrog players, as well, which would be very nice to see. So NW would be a very balanced addition in those regards. However, out of the above list of DC expansions, The Northern Waste is the set that would most dramatically expand the standard map, adding 15 regions and 3 new havens -- one each for hero, minion, and balrog.

How do you see the map expansion that comes with NW working with Editorial Comment #3?
3) Many indicate they rather see new cards operating within the standard map, so as to keep it familiar. We've been slowly introducing a few new regions, for this reason and another, that territorial expansions might create issues with the amount of interaction in the game. CvCC, influencing, spying, that's all tricky on the larger map. Territorial expansions must somehow be fit into the DC game, perhaps restricting them to scenario play.

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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by Kjeld » Tue May 21, 2019 9:33 pm

Would it be possible to provide a short overview of the sets up for voting? It could be organized somewhat along the following lines:

The Great Wyrms

~### new cards

Theme

Set in Wilderland and Dragon Country, this is a thematic sequel to The Dragons.

New Features
  • Introduces a new type of avatar, Dragon-lords.
  • Adds three new regions: two mountain ranges and Dragon Gap ( [-me_sl-] ) which fit within the existing MECCG map.
  • Adds 29 new sites (14 each hero and minion sites and 1 Dragon-lord site).
Strategies Supported

???

Fun Facts
  • Contains English versions of the German promos Belegennon, Horn of Defiance, and Ringil.
  • Introduces Grimbeorn the Old, Bain (son of Bard the Bowman) and The Master of Esgaroth.
  • The first (only?) Undead Dragon, Uruial.

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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by rezwits » Tue May 21, 2019 10:47 pm

I voted OTHER (but put Northern Wastes), because of two reasons:

---== REASON ONE ==---
I believe the next RELEASE, should be 2 Expansions, BIG, like DCFF. (2-3 years EDITS, 2 BOOKS, 1-2 years PRINT/SHIP) (4 years total)
And then after that 2 more Expansions, BIG, again like DCFF. (2-3 years EDITS, 2 BOOKS, 1-2 years PRINT/SHIP) (3 years total)

---== REASON TWO ==--
At this point we would be OLD :P haha, but have things down pat so hard at that point, I think we (the DC committe) could print and ship, the 80-150 card expansions every 1-2 years. Till Death do us Part...

That being said:

MENW = The Northern Wastes (and) MEGW = The Great Wyrms (If 3 or 4, MEKN and/or MEML)

then

MESL = The Sun Lands (and) MECA = The Court of Ardor (If 3 or 4, MECP and/or MEBO)}

There are some key advantages to this progression:
  • "The North" DCTN?, DCNO?
    • This would introduce, and except for Atani-lords and Warlords, pretty much finish up Avatar selection:
      (Dragon-lords, plus the bonus Balrog).
    • This would also finish up the northern part of the map which gives a great wealth of land to explore. In addition dragon hunting, not to mention give some use for those METD Dragon Commons we got stuffed in boxes ;P
    • Also the north could basically be finished, and as far as cards they are quite completed already except for testing and tweaks
    • This is also in line, with a pattern and flow, because we are talking Elf-lords, Dwarf-lords, then RWs, then Dragon-lords,
      "ah...completeness"
    • If we take the time and go so far as tacking on the smaller ML and KN, that's that all DONE, "completeness TRUE"
  • "The South" DCTS? DCSO?
    • The reason for the delay with this expansion/block, is because IT'S NO WHERE NEAR COMPLETE haha, which is cool. While the North being really complete and practically ready, the team can actually work on North in testing, and the South while in deep thought.
    • This would complete the Alignments introducing the Elves of the South (The Court), and the Grey Player.
    • The map would get filled in even more, and connect Greater Harad and Far Harad to Mordor.
    • This would also be a return to the (other) Ringwraiths getting to work with their domains, Akhorahil and Indur.
    • The REAL beauty is the DC World aspect would be there, except for sites from expansions that are just mainly just sites right now anyway.
    • If we went so far as did 3 or 4, maybe just tack on MEBO, that would almost be ALL the site in the game!
  • "The Future" (after 6-9 years)
    • At any point, one expansion could be done in a year or two
    • METI, MEWR, etc anything could be done in 1-2 years.
    • MEML, Morgoth's Legacy, done 1-2 years.
    • MEBO, done 1-2 years.
    • MECP, the Central Plains, done! 1-2 years.
    • This would basically be retirement time printing... 8)
In closing, this is just my idea because I mainly want THE HAVENS printed, to be able to jam from Haven to Haven and travel all of ENDOR before I die!!

[-me_wh-]-PM-ME-IF
You probably aren't playing Agents correctly 8) <- need a rule thread for this tho...

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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by CCG Collector » Wed May 22, 2019 2:16 am

Kjeld wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 9:33 pm
Would it be possible to provide a short overview of the sets up for voting? It could be organized somewhat along the following lines:

...
Fully agree with this. I'd like to vote, but I'd just be voting on my favorite name, which to me makes the vote meaningless.
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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by Goblin King » Wed May 22, 2019 4:39 am

Not at all sure what all of the expansions names stand for. But I voted for Nine for Mortal Men. It may not be what I think it is. I've always thought a good expansion would be what if one of the powerful rulers of men got The One.
The avatars would be people like Denethor, King Brand, Theoden, Prince Imrahil, Hurin the Tall, Lord of Lossarnach

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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by Qapla » Wed May 22, 2019 6:49 am

Northern Waste because it's the oldest one, but the Dragonlords are very interesting to play too.
HeglumeH QaQ jajvam

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Wed May 22, 2019 12:50 pm

@kjeld/ ccg collector. Like mentioned in the OP and by VastorPer, you can do some homework and view the cards on Cardnum!
But, since we are nothing if not helpful, I'll make a short description for each set.
Sometimes I do wonder if I don't spoil you guys too much :lol:

@rezwits. I applaude your enthusiasm, and while printing larger sets is indeed more cost -and time efficient, the DC game needs to grow steadily and organically, see my OP!
Of course, you can travel the whole of Endor (half of it) in online games already, and nothing stops you from doing a bit of home-printing, like we have been doing for the past 15 years :-)


nb. all voters can still change their vote, and the poll runs indefinitely (well, till we start on completing the next set).
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

Kjeld
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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by Kjeld » Wed May 22, 2019 1:24 pm

Thanks, Thorsten. I have viewed all of these sets multiple times in the past, and so have a basic idea of what's in them. But they're a lot to take in, and it's hard to grasp what the overall impact on the game will be from adding one set as opposed to another. For example, it's fairly easy to see that The Great Wyrms mainly introduces Dragon-lord avatars and a bunch of dragon goodies. However, it's harder to understand what Return of the Shadow is adding to the game, apart from a bunch of thematically appropriate cards linked to events in Fellowship of the Ring (which is cool!). I really like how The Necromancer book provides an overview of the play strategies that are supported and expanded by this set, and was hoping for maybe a few words in the regard for the sets here.

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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by CCG Collector » Wed May 22, 2019 1:27 pm

Thorsten the Traveller wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 12:50 pm
@kjeld/ ccg collector. Like mentioned in the OP and by VastorPer, you can do some homework and view the cards on Cardnum!
But, since we are nothing if not helpful, I'll make a short description for each set.
Sometimes I do wonder if I don't spoil you guys too much :lol:
Ah, I had left the "Only Released" box checked. No worries; I see them now.
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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by CDavis7M » Wed May 22, 2019 4:20 pm

I have some experience playing against a few cards in various sets. I also have some time this week. Let me see if I can create a few broad descriptions of these sets from an outsider's perspective.

But, one thing to note upfront -- we have receive 8 new Lord avatars and The Necromancer. If people want new "bad guy" avatars, those are mostly from The Great Wyrms (a whole 7 Dragon Lords). Which, could really be fun to play against Dwarf Lords.

The Northern Wastes seems very complete and has a great roster of hero and minion characters. But there is actually so much here that it can be a little complex to pick up.

Maybe it would be good to release a smaller expansion, similar to Dark Minions or Against the Shadow. A few new characters, new missions, new sites in the same regions, new event counters, and creatures. But mostly more of the same.

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Re: DC Poll: which expansion is next?

Post by Kjeld » Wed May 22, 2019 4:37 pm

CDavis7M wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 4:20 pm
Maybe it would be good to release a smaller expansion, similar to Dark Minions or Against the Shadow. A few new characters, new missions, new sites in the same regions, new event counters, and creatures. But mostly more of the same.
From this list, that would have to be Return of the Shadow, right? Unless it's a really small set like Nine for Mortal Men (38 cards), but that set seems super-specific to rings, particularly active play of The One Ring.

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